Did the swiss create the ultimate pocket knife?

Nothing against the smaller butterfly type multi-tools, but I hate the extra steps to open them up just to cut something. When I carried the Champ and Swisschamp it was just a matter of pull it out of the sheath by the small lanyard, one move to open up the main blade for general cutting, the small blade for fine cutting, or to use any of the tools, then one folding action to close it, and pop it back in the sheath.

I always got frustrated with the butterfly types when I have to take it out, butterfly it open, then extract the blade or tool, then two motions to close it up. That and I just found the scissors and saws better on the SAK.

I'm feeling sort of blasphemy coming on since getting the Farmer and that little score that included a Manager. I'm seriously thinking of giving my beloved Case Mini-Trapper a rest and just carrying the Farmer in one pocket and the Manager in another. (The pen is really handy as I don't carry one all the time anymore.) So I have all my "essentials" on the Farmer except the scissors which along with a phillips screwdriver is on the Manager. Rounded out and pretty much covered. I'm mildly traumatized.
 
Amos Iron Wolf said:
Nothing against the smaller butterfly type multi-tools, but I hate the extra steps to open them up just to cut something. When I carried the Champ and Swisschamp it was just a matter of pull it out of the sheath by the small lanyard, one move to open up the main blade for general cutting, the small blade for fine cutting, or to use any of the tools, then one folding action to close it, and pop it back in the sheath.

I always got frustrated with the butterfly types when I have to take it out, butterfly it open, then extract the blade or tool, then two motions to close it up. That and I just found the scissors and saws better on the SAK.

I'm feeling sort of blasphemy coming on since getting the Farmer and that little score that included a Manager. I'm seriously thinking of giving my beloved Case Mini-Trapper a rest and just carrying the Farmer in one pocket and the Manager in another. (The pen is really handy as I don't carry one all the time anymore.) So I have all my "essentials" on the Farmer except the scissors which along with a phillips screwdriver is on the Manager. Rounded out and pretty much covered. I'm mildly traumatized.
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I love the farmer pattern. It's barely thicker feeling than the Pioneer. It's practically as pocketable and you get a great little saw.
 
mudguard said:
Would you carry a pioneer sized knife to your office?
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I do every day. A Vic Farmer. Used it a lunch today to cut my boss's rubber Tissot strap as I was resizing it. The can opener for the pins and the spearpoint for the cutting.
 
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Amos Iron Wolf said:
Nothing against the smaller butterfly type multi-tools, but I hate the extra steps to open them up just to cut something. When I carried the Champ and Swisschamp it was just a matter of pull it out of the sheath by the small lanyard, one move to open up the main blade for general cutting, the small blade for fine cutting, or to use any of the tools, then one folding action to close it, and pop it back in the sheath.

I always got frustrated with the butterfly types when I have to take it out, butterfly it open, then extract the blade or tool, then two motions to close it up. That and I just found the scissors and saws better on the SAK.

I'm feeling sort of blasphemy coming on since getting the Farmer and that little score that included a Manager. I'm seriously thinking of giving my beloved Case Mini-Trapper a rest and just carrying the Farmer in one pocket and the Manager in another. (The pen is really handy as I don't carry one all the time anymore.) So I have all my "essentials" on the Farmer except the scissors which along with a phillips screwdriver is on the Manager. Rounded out and pretty much covered. I'm mildly traumatized.
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The manager is often overlooked, and very handy. It also has a bottle opener! :D My sister carried one on a 3 week trip to China, and had all her knife needs covered. And then some.
 
I like my little Manager, very helpful when I forgot to pocket a pen :thumbup: For the office, I really don't need anything else, it's the obsessive compulsive knife nut that keeps me looking/wanting more...
 
My argument — which admittedly is likely simply justification for an emotional choice — is that I can get at the tool(s) I want better, faster, and more easily with a camper/Soldier/Pioneer/demo-style knife than I can with a multitold (Squirt, just for example).

When I reach into my pocket for the knife, I'm already envisioning the blade I'll use, and "orienting" on the knife to locate that blade when I pull it out is easy. For all the practicality several have mentioned here regarding MUTs, I just get a knife blade or tool into action quicker and with less conscious thinking.

No doubt this is conditioning (got my Imperial Scout 50+ years ago) and habit.
 
I like my multi's, and I like my SAK's. I use both, and they both have their place. That said, with the exception one of the redacted models discussed above, and one or two of its brothers, I generally find SAKs to be more pocket friendly than any of my butterfly-opening multitools. They are lighter, I dig the rounded corners and blade shapes, and I find their utilitarian nature appealing.

Pinnah's assessment of their steel is spot-on; it is soft, which I see as a virtue. I can sharpen a SAK up in no time flat, and, for my uses, stays moderately sharp for quite a while. I don't use my knives hard, because I live a suburban life, I hike on well-established routes, I have never been back-country hiking or camping, and most of my knife chores can be chalked up to package opening. SAK steel is good enough for that. My life just doesn't require anything more rugged than my Vic Executive, and anything more would be make believe.

Edit to add that I didn't really address the OP's original post. The perfect or ultimate pocket knife is a subjective term. If you pose this question to one hundred people, you will get one hundred different answers. This thread proves that. In my estimation, Victorinox and Wenger both make damn fine knives, with consistently high quality control, but not without their faults and flaws. Victorinox is one of my favorite brands, not only because of their reputation and apparent quality, but also because it was the first good knife that I owned. The few I had before that were poorly constructed and wobbly. I freely admit to being more than a bit nostalgic for, and biased toward, Victorinox, particularly the Tinker model. They're not for everyone, but they work for me.
 
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pinnah said:
Codger, this picture still has my brain reeling. Could you tell us more about it?
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It is a tiny thing meant to be carried in a gentleman's vest pocket for gentlemanly tasks. As shown, it opens butterfly style to reveal the scissors. Closed, it has lobster style manicure tools, a cuicle blade with nail file and a small pen blade. It has a latch on the end to hold the handles closed until the scissors are needed. It was made in Ohligs-Solengin Germany between 1896 and 1914 by the Kastor Brothers Germania Cutlery Works which was run by brother Nathan Kastor. It is marked for U.S. import and similar knives are seen in my circa 1911 Norvell Shapliegh catalog, though not this exact one. The more complicated one with 20 blades (appendages) retailed then for $17. That is equivilant to over $400 in today's currency. A simpler pearl gent's knife like this butterfly knife might retail for $4 in 1911 and would cost $97.09 in 2012. The German workmanship is superb.

Now, as to the OP knife, the Swiss Army knife, I don't own one and never have. When I need a multipurpose knife for work besides my usual premium stockman, I opt for an Ulster camp utility knife or the "tank", my Mil-K818.

13z04t2.jpg


The Swiss did not invent this. :)
 
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leghog said:
The Swiss invented its granddaddy.

swiss-army-pocket-knife-Model-1890-Ausf%C3%BChrung-1901.jpg
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I don't believe that is accurate.

According to Wikipedia (and in line with Codger's prior post), the first knives of that type produced for the Swiss Army were made by Wester & Co. from Solingen, Germany in 1890.
220px-Wester_%26_Co_2.JPG


What Codger has added is that style of combination tool knife was being made in Germany and England well before the Swiss picked up the pattern for their military and well before the company that was to become Victorinox was even founded.

More info here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Army_knife#Origins


I believe that Elsener's invention was the use of an internal spring, allowing the placement of tools on both sides of the frame. This gave birth to the first "Officers" knife, which established the template for what we know as the SAK. Date was 1897.
4c882bc1c9a57.preview-300.jpg



What we commonly refer to as the Boy Scout Knife, is a bit different. Here is one of the earlier BSA knives that I can find but I'm sure people who more on the topic can weigh in. This is a New York Knife model first made in 1911.
NEWC4A.jpg


When the first US style camper was produced remains a mystery to me. I'm pretty confident that this style was being produced before the BSA officially sanctioned them. I asked this of Bernard Levine in his sub-forum and he suggested that the US camper style a) was closely related to the equal end cattle knife (same frame) that was popular in the American west in the late 1800s, b) the camper appeared around the turn of the century and c) it's not clear what came first, the US-styled camper (equal end frame, back spring) or the Victorinox Officer's knife.

IMO, the all-stainless "demo knife" that Codger posted a picture of is in the lineage of the of US-style camper and not in the style of the asymmetrical German style camper (a.k.a. the granddaddy of the first German made Swiss Army Knife) nor in the style of the mid-spring Victorinox Officers knife (the template for the iconic SAK).

Lastly, I'm pretty sure the Alox models like the Pioneer...
vn53960.jpg


... are more derived from the US military Demo knife than from typical Victorinox SAKs with their typical mid-spring placement.


None of this is meant to denigrate Victorinox in anyway. As is the case in many areas of manufacture, R&D stands for "rip-off and duplicate". Heaven knows a ton of company's have ripped off the mid spring design. I believe that is core SAK invention and what distinguishes them from the US-style campers.
 
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