Disappointed by ZT 560

[brandoak]

Your right the blue nylon would probably be known as the bearing cage not race, the knife in question simply doesn't have a race or is using what should be a race seat as a race. Here are some pictures of races that should be in the race seat

*Notice the horrible groove cut by the bearings

 

[fsatsil]

Galling



Google galling definition of you need words to explain it. But that's a pretty good visual representation. I bet if we had more detailed pics of it that it would be much easier to see.

Maybe I'm missing something but those parts that are circled are not where the ball bearings make contact. Those marks could be dirt, lubricant, or possibly nylon from the bearing cage rubbing, but it is not galling from the contact of the steel balls on the titanium frame.

 

[kniferbro]

Your right the blue nylon would probably be known as the bearing cage not race, the knife in question simply doesn't have a race or is using what should be a race seat as a race. Here are some pictures of races that should be in the race seat

http://www.ikbsknifetech.com/20801.html

 

[155440]

I am far from an engineer so can't speak to that.

Myself and a lot of the gentleman here today have been here long enough to hear all sorts of complaints. From subjective nuances of fit and finish to actual flaws like severe blade play and poor heat treat. If it was such a catastrophe to claim disappointment in a new knife I'm sure there would be previous documentation. Unless I'm living in a worm hole and the ZT 560/561 just came out this week.

"All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again."

I've never been a big ZT or Kershaw guy but I can still respect that KAI makes a quality product and stands behind it. It seems that there is a very vocal minority that always have complaints along the lines of "Stop liking what I dislike".

 

[stabman]

It seems that there is a very vocal minority that always have complaints along the lines of "Stop liking what I dislike".

They should watch this informative video.

[video=youtube;0la5DBtOVNI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI[/video]

 

[brandoak]

I guess the way I see it is taking apart your engine in your favorite truck and discovering that the pistons have rubbed deep grooves into the piston chamber/walls.....some argue that it was meant to do that, the manufacturer designed it that way! It still drives the same way I got her years ago and don't fix whats not broke....I simply state that if your engine was put together right ie piston rings “races” it would not have developed the deep grooves in the first place..
Is your engine going to blow up....yes or will the bearings continue “makeing/carving there own races yes...until there is no more depth to be carved...

 

[stabman]

Is your engine going to blow up....yes or will the bearings continue “makeing/carving there own races yes...until there is no more depth to be carved...

What do you think is going to happen?
No one has had the bearings wear through the scale, and I've never even seen a complaint that the wear caused blade play.
So it's not a big deal; it's just something you don't like.

So buy a different knife...simple.

 

[RevDevil]

Here is another strange and not very relevant analogy. If you buy said truck, then complain that it rides too rough, too high, goes off road, the mileage suck and that it is just too large and loud... It might occur to some that a passenger vehicle may have been the ticket to begin with and that a bit more shopping around would have been a wiser use of time. But some people always need something to complain about I guess. Can't please everyone. Also, there is a reason that these knives come with warranties.

 

[benchwarmer380]

I guess the way I see it is taking apart your engine in your favorite truck and discovering that the pistons have rubbed deep grooves into the piston chamber/walls.....some argue that it was meant to do that, the manufacturer designed it that way! It still drives the same way I got her years ago and don't fix whats not broke....I simply state that if your engine was put together right ie piston rings “races” it would not have developed the deep grooves in the first place..
Is your engine going to blow up....yes or will the bearings continue “makeing/carving there own races yes...until there is no more depth to be carved...

Not quite.

If kniferbro had come up with that analogy then maybe. All you did was take a look under the hood and under the car and assumed what the wear and tear would look like after 150K miles and then based you opinion of quality on the assumption.

 

[brandoak]

Good find on the cold rolling process of IKBS races!

But would you have us believe that ZT meant for the product user to cold roll his own grooves?

Why wouldn't they just do it at the factory and not have us constantly adjusting the pivot screw tighter as we cold roll our own grooves into our knives....

To the average user that would never even tighten the pivot Im sure they would complain of the blade loosening and slop or having to constantly tighten the knife pivot,

and heck to the uninformed that didnt know they were in charge of cold rolling there own grooves or races it would shock them upon disassembley I'm sure.

http://www.ikbsknifetech.com/20801.html

 

[brandoak]

Very well said!

Here is another strange and not very relevant analogy. If you buy said truck, then complain that it rides too rough, too high, goes off road, the mileage suck and that it is just too large and loud... It might occur to some that a passenger vehicle may have been the ticket to begin with and that a bit more shopping around would have been a wiser use of time. But some people always need something to complain about I guess. Can't please everyone. Also,mtuere is a reason that these knives come with warranties.

 

[stabman]

To the average user that would never even tighten the pivot

I have never met the guy--or girl--who didn't think to tighten a loose pivot.
It's so bloody obvious!

Most companies have to tell customers not to fiddle with screws.

 

[Sunyata]

I have never met the guy--or girl--who didn't think to tighten a loose pivot.
It's so bloody obvious!

Most companies have to tell customers not to fiddle with screws.

I don't know. There are a lot of idiots that loosen their pivots and induce blade play so they can wrist flick knives that weren't designed to be opened that way

 

[stabman]

I don't know. There are a lot of idiots that loosen their pivots and induce blade play so they can wrist flick knives that weren't designed to be opened that way

True enough...but they did know about the pivot screw.

 

[brandoak]

I think you have to design a product for the dumb masses, We here are knife peeps and we love to fiddle with screws lol

I have never met the guy--or girl--who didn't think to tighten a loose pivot.
It's so bloody obvious!

Most companies have to tell customers not to fiddle with screws.

 

[stabman]

I think you have to design a product for the dumb masses, We here are knife peeps and we love to fiddle with screws lol

Something with peened pins would suffice.
The old Cold Steel voyagers were that way.

Or even pressed pins like the stainless steel Spyderco Police; that's a nice knife that doesn't have anything to fiddle with. :thumbup:

 

[Gadt]

What did it look like new?

 

[brandoak]

I simply returned a knife because I saw a potential problem occurring that if happened to me I would not be satisfied with.

The problem was proven to be justified by pictures of it actually happening.
The owner of the knife is not unhappy, it works fine good!

Most will probably never use the same knife to the extent that he does...fine.

Could it have been avoided with hardened steel washers in the race seats ...yes.

Is it a design flaw? I think so but would be great to here from ZT.

Arguing that because your lawn chair seat split and your but now touches the ground was a manufacture design and that its now just broke in and just right and comfy …...well to each his own..

 

[craytab]

Very well said!

It is very well said but I believe the point was missed.

 

[EChoil]

Most bearing flippers are like most cell phones....half fondle, half function. I'd bet more flipping cycles are for fondling than for function (i.e. opening for actual USE on something).

Best analogy I've seen was when someone compared them to worry beads.

Washer knives are far more function than fondle.

Nothing wrong with that---hell I used to like to sit and flip my flipper too.