Disappointed by ZT 560

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Its like buying a truck with big ol tires thinking it will be a good off roader but the tiny axle breaks when you try...this knife screams tough with its big overbuilt elmax blade but its got tiny breakable parts that wear prematurely to those who actually take it off road.
craytab said:
It is very well said but I believe the point was missed.
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I just wouldn't call it a defect if it's intended in IKBS knives, probably the most prolific bearing system on the market. Using the vice accelerates the process, but it can and does happen over time I see it as a plus. I'd rather my bearing roll in a race than on a flat plane.. especially if we're considering "tank" like knives. :D
 
brandoak said:
Is it a design flaw? I think so but would be great to here from ZT.
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ZT already spoke on the subject, many times in fact. Search through the archives to find their responses to these same concerns. I have a very low numbered 0560, and I have no raceways carved or worn into the Ti slabs. I have very fine lines but then again it is one of my most used knives. I have not split logs, chopped down and bucked lumber with it, nor have I built a lg cabin with it so my use my not qualify according some folks. What I do recall other makers saying that the Ti will in fact work harden and stop potential deformation before it happens. You would need tons of pressure moving at high speeds repeatedly to warp the handles with those bearings. Sending a knife back based on a potentially nonexistent future event is almost bordering on the paranoia side of things. But you are right, to each their own. It's still a great knife, despite imaginary imperfections. This is just my opinion after owning and using several after years.
 
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Technically the nylon part is called the cage and the races would be the titanium frame and the steel blade tang.
 
yep I misspoke and corrected myself later on calling the blue nylon the cage and the horrible grooves cut by the bearings into the “race seat or pocket”.. read the posts first
poolhustler said:
Technically NO....... the race is the surface that the bearings ride on. The blue nylon is simply a "retainer" for the bearings which ride on the races.

Have you ever studied engineering?
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the argument now is that the knife never had a race for the bearings and is using what should house the race as a race and thereby digging in making its own race groove
 
brandoak said:
Its like buying a truck with big ol tires thinking it will be a good off roader but the tiny axle breaks when you try...this knife screams tough with its big overbuilt elmax blade but its got tiny breakable parts that wear prematurely to those who actually take it off road.
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You keep pushing your misguided agenda like crazy, when you have no empirical data to prove your point. Show me you extensive evidence of "tiny breakable parts that wear prematurely"...

Also, don't forget the ZT/KAI full warranty.......
 
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On a side note does anyone know why needle bearings aren't used for pivots? Seems like they would solve most of the issues discussed in this thread.
 
brandoak said:
yep I misspoke and corrected myself later on calling the blue nylon the cage and the horrible grooves cut by the bearings into the “race seat or pocket”.. read the posts first
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Just responded as I read through....sorry!

I use a ZT0560CBCF as my secondary EDC and have for about 2 years now. My knife has no perceptible grooves and still performs flawlessly.
 
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As far as I'm concerned, between the work-hardening of the Ti, and the significant increase in rolling surface area gained as the bearings seat in as on knifebros example, I believe the wear rate would quickly taper to near zero, and you would end up with a nice smooth knife, as has been pointed out several times in this thread... In my opinion, this is how it should progress, and is likely a better long term situation than flat steel inserts/races, with minimal surface area to distribute loads.
 
fsatsil said:
On a side note does anyone know why needle bearings aren't used for pivots? Seems like they would solve most of the issues discussed in this thread.
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Needle roller bearings are a lot more expensive, especially the finer ones to tighter tolerances. They're far beyond the 'needs' of a folder too--whole 'nother ballgame (and price range).

Yeah, they are much better with lateral forces, etc. Kind of like 'too good for knives' type thing mostly. You'll find a few in customs if you look but you'll pay dearly.
 
Funny you should ask i just found this....makes me wonder if they are putting this kinda force on the knife to make those tiny dings what kinda titanium is zt using that it dents and wears like knifebro's knife with regular open and closing?
fsatsil said:
On a side note does anyone know why needle bearings aren't used for pivots? Seems like they would solve most of the issues discussed in this thread.
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http://www.shirogorov.com/forums/shirogorov-knives/information/160/
 
I may be overly paranoid but knifebro's knife confirms my original post and paranoia
poolhustler said:
Just responded as I read through....sorry!

I use a ZT0560CBCF as my secondary EDC and have for about 2 years now. My knife has no perceptible grooves and still performs flawlessly.

You are being overly paranoid...........
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brandoak said:
Its like buying a truck with big ol tires thinking it will be a good off roader but the tiny axle breaks when you try...this knife screams tough with its big overbuilt elmax blade but its got tiny breakable parts that wear prematurely to those who actually take it off road.
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:confused: only a fool would think that putting big tires on a truck makes it an off-road vehicle. I happen to think that ball bearing pivots offer no advantage over bronze bushings but I've also seen no evidence that ball bearing pivots break easily or wear prematurely so for me it is a non issue. There are so many more important things to consider when buying a knife such as ergonomics, grind, blade steel, price...etc the design of the pivot is probably the last thing I would think about because it has little to no effect on the actual performance of the knife as a cutting tool.
 
EChoil said:
Needle roller bearings are a lot more expensive, especially the finer ones to tighter tolerances. They're far beyond the 'needs' of a folder too--whole 'nother ballgame (and price range).

Yeah, they are much better with lateral forces, etc. Kind of like 'too good for knives' type thing mostly. You'll find a few in customs if you look but you'll pay dearly.
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The difference in price is only a few dollars but I guess the benefits don't outweigh the the added cost for a production knife.
 
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