Do the ethics of a knife maker/company matter to you?

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My pinky is a little drunk. Hit the enter key too quick! If I were to read that a manufacturer were cheating it's employees out of benefits I would look into a bit deeper before my next purchase. Sometimes we as consumers don't always get the whole scoop. Just because it's on the internet don't make true!!! Hell, just because it's on CNN don't make it True!!!
 
Cooper committed political suicide, and alienated almost all of his buyers. It is a very stupid idea to (openly) support a gun banning presidential candidate if you make "sniper rifles" (the libs won't ban your "hunting rifle" they'll ban your "sniper rifle") :jerkit: he got what he deserved.

Toddzio said:
I would like to make a point that Politics and Ethics are not the same thing. I am a Strong Progressive Democrat, I am the only knife maker I know who is a Democrat. Other knife makers share their knowledge with me and I with them, because that is the ethical thing to do. I think what happened to the Cooper Firearms president (He was forced to resign over his support for Obama) really shows the trouble our nation is in. I am glad that this thread, and by most part the knife making industry has not fallen prey to that conflict.
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I gotta ask a question of some of you who seem to know a lot more than I do. For one, How the Hell would most buyers know how a company treats their employees? None of them have ever complained to me. Do you hire a private eye to investigate companies ethics? Or do we just read it here? Just wondering, there is so much that I don't know.:confused:
 
Where do the ethics stop? Say I buy a knife online of a certain manufacturer. Do I need to now what the online suppliers ethics are? The manufacturer we are already discussing. Lets say there all good and golden. What about where the maker gets it's raw materials. Should I go back that far? I know I'm going off here but again ethics is a GRAY area from one person to the next on state to the next and so on and so forth. If were here to pick on Strider than please someone dig up that "beating a dead horse" avatar. If we are talking about absolutely being aware of the ethical status of every single person I purchase from, well I'm sorry that's not possible.
 
udtjim said:
I gotta ask a question of some of you who seem to know a lot more than I do. For one, How the Hell would most buyers know how a company treats their employees? None of them have ever complained to me. Do you hire a private eye to investigate companies ethics? Or do we just read it here? Just wondering, there is so much that I don't know.:confused:
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We can't have all the information udtijm. However, we can have some of it. Weight of evidence goes a long way. Is a common set of information coming from different sources? Is a perceived bias of information occurring because of preferred access to communications by one party over another? Are debates actually open or are they closed?

I understand your critique about there being two sides to every story. However, sometimes one party doesn't want to play when it comes to give and tell. Do we have to give the silent partner the benefit of the doubt simply because they choose to remain silent? Maybe they remain silent because they simply don't care about your opinion.
 
Yes, ethics matter to me. I will not support unethical businesses. There are enough high quality knives out there from ethical businesses, so it's not like I am suffering for it.

That being said, it is difficult to get an accurate feel for the true ethics of many companies, and I give them the benefit of the doubt. But when I see unethical behavior on the part of a company, the game is over as far as I'm concerned. And I also will not deal with companies if the owners have what I call attitude problems. I think we all know a few that are like that.
 
TheWayOfTheGun1 said:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I agree with your statement 100%

As Jesus said "May he who is free from sin, cast the first stone"

My humble .02...It's not for me to judge Mick Strider or what he has done in his personal life, that's Gods job. I'm not concerned with his morality because I know as a God fearing christian I struggle with my decisions and judgements everyday. I know I can't cast stones but feel free to cast stones if you wish....

All I judge is his blades, workmanship and warranty and I have been extremely satisfied with his work and warranty...thats all I will judge.
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Thanks man.

All I'm trying to point out is that we're basically knife consumers. "Collectors", "users", whatever, we purchase knives to fulfill whatever needs we may have. Some need to have a beautiful knife simply for the sake of owning it. Some need to have one they can beat up. Some need a knife because...they actually need to cut a few things in their daily life. This is all well and good.

The discussion of "ethics" can lead to many problems. If you feel the need to boycott a certain company because you disagree with their marketing and deem their practices unsuitable to your standards, that doesn't make you more "ethical" than someone who doesn't CARE about that marketing, and continues to purchase the products of the company you feel is beneath you.

And as another forum member pointed out, if you care about a company's ethics so much, you should apply that practice to every company you purchase from, not just knives.

If you're browsing with Internet Explorer or using any Microsoft product, I'd google "Microsoft Anti Trust" if I were you.

Eating meat tonight that isn't organic or grass-fed? I'd google "animal cruelty" if I were you.

"We're all part of the same hypocrisy." -- Michael Corleone
 
Or maybe there are legal issues that govern what they can or will say. But you are correct in that we can never really know. I tend to give everyone the Benefit of the doubt, some people including my wife tend to be a natural skeptic, or to think once wrong, always wrong, or once right, always right. I guess it comes down to how a person see's things overall. Most times people have to work pretty hard to prove to me that they are all bad.:) But it can be done.
 
They are certainly important to me. I want to buy things from good people, not evil companies just trying to make every buck they can.

There are so many big corporations out there that will underpay employees and sell junk just so the main suits at the top can have million dollar bonuses:barf:. I wish these "busineses" would fall so the little mom+pop stores would have a chance again.

If the world cared more about how people are treated than money, it would be a much better place.
 
babakanoosh45 said:
Where do the ethics stop?...
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You bring up a good point and so does udtjim. One way I try to do business with good companies is to shop with small companies and/or ones that I already know. I trust that I can get a good deal and give money to someone I like when I buy from Chris Reeve. I know people who have worked for Cutlery Shoppe in Idaho and I've met the company founder, Jeff Loffer, a really good guy. There is still the problem that they're just the middle man, I could be buying stuff from them that was made by communists who torture kittens. We just do the best we can.

To answer udtjim's question, one of the ways to get to know who you're buying from is what we're doing here, exchanging information. Of course there is plenty of crap information out there so it's important to verify what you read, but how many people would have known about Dan Cooper if it wasn't for gun forums? By the same token, somebody mentioned Rob Dalton having symbology they didn't like on his knives. I didn't know about that. I still don't know, but you can bet I'm going to do a little more research about it. Cooper was political, I wouldn't necessarily abandon them because of what Dan Cooper did but it's information I'm glad I have. As for knife makers putting Nazi symbols on their knives, that, to me, is an ethical situation. I won't knowingly deal with Nazis. Spreading infromation around like this is a good thing. You don't have to take my word for it, I guarantee I won't take yours alone on anything. However, I will use any information I get to do more looking on my own.
 
TheWayOfTheGun1 said:
Jesus said "May he who is free from sin, cast the first stone"
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That's true. He also said "Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged" To me this says you should use the same standard of judgement on others as you'd want applied to you. I'm okay with that. If I lied about a military record to falsely glorify myself I'd expect to have to work scraping gum off of toilet seats for many, many years.
 
I'm not for unethical anything. I am for the most part IMHO an ethical individual. My point condensed here is, Ethics no matter how hard you try or unless carved on a stone in front of the manufacturer in question is subjective at best. I may agree with everything you say about this person or that person but it is still just our ethical meter we are using. The next person may not have a problem with it at all. Or may not be privy to the information we have. There may be information we I or you don't have or the Information could be skewed. It just goes on and on. But people who don't have the info you or I may have CAN be persuaded by what we think and the misinformation continues to grow out of control. That's all I am trying to say...
 
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alaskanativeson said:
Do you take the ethics of a knife maker or company into account when you consider purchasing one of their products? Do you believe it's something to consider or not? Why or why not?

I've heard some people say all that matters to them is that they get a well designed, well made knife, that they don't care about whether the company is a good company or not. I'll admit, I'm opinionated as hell. What's more, I believe there are two opinions in this world: My opinion and the wrong one. When I'm looking at buying a knife I usually don't look too much at a company or how they run their business. However, I will say there are times when something pushes me over the top making me refuse to do business with them. Strider knives is one such example. Regardless of the support he gets from many in the knife community, his lies about his military service in order to make a name for himself sickens me and I won't give his company any of my money.

Some people are that way with Cold Steel. I'd agree that their founder is not my cup of tea but I still buy things from them. What things Lynn Thompson have done might not be the best but he hasn't screwed up so badly I refuse to give him my business.

What do you think? Does a business's ethics matter to you? Do you think they should?Why or why not? I am posting this here to have a reasonable discussion about beliefs, not to have a pissing contest about any one company. If you want to mention a specific company or person, feel free to do so, but let's not turn this into a hate flame war. Reasonable people should be able to have disagreements without resorting to childish behavior.
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the company, the quality, the customer service-it ALL matters immensely to me...i totally agree with you on strider...also, i hate cold steel

only thing i'm a hypocrit about is microtech-tony marfione is a an a***hole, customer service is crap, and the quality control sucks...BUT when you get a good Microtech, you get a GOOD knife
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Psychopomp,

FYI, 100% of the proift from the WTC project went to the Widows & Orphans fund. Everyone paid full boat ($225), even my family, for theirs. The only non paying pieces went to President Bush (#911) and mayor Giuliani (#2001).

sal
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Do not forget to mention the complimentary Meerkat which was included w/ the WTC! I believe that knife retailed for close to around $85. Thanks Sal!
 
I dunno. It's a knife.

No one ever told me I could only buy knives made by people that had never sinned.

But now I hear people hate so and so cause he fibbed. Or hate what's his name cause he stabbed a car. That's a lot of hating over a knife.

These days I kinda like Case knives. The designs aren't original. I don't know how the workers are treated. The company is owned by a publicly traded corporation.

They seem to fail all your parameters.

But they make good knives. And I intend to buy more.
 
babakanoosh45 said:
I'm not for unethical anything. I am for the most part IMHO an ethical individual. My point condensed here is, Ethics no matter how hard you try or unless carved on a stone in front of the manufacturer in question is subjective at best. I may agree with everything you say about this person or that person but it is still just our ethical meter we are using. The next person may not have a problem with it at all. Or may not be privy to the information we have. There may be information we I or you don't have or the Information could be skewed. It just goes on and on. But people who don't have the info you or I may have CAN be persuaded by what we think and the misinformation continues to grow out of control. That's all I am trying to say...
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And of course you're right about that. I know several people who are real knife aficionados that love Strider knives and don't care about the lies he told. I think nothing less of them becuase their beliefs differ from mine. There are several people here who expressed that all they care about is a good quality product and good customer service. I wouldn't ever presume to expect others to share my beliefs about ethics. I do appreciate the discussion we've (I'm referring to everyone here, not just babakanoosh45) had about this. I've had the opportunity to share something I believe is relevant about the knife world, been able to solicit opposing views as well as agreements, and hopefully given people something to think about. As a teacher I like to get people thinking. It's a good thing I can do that here, I'm not sure it's happening in the classrooms up here in rural Alaska. :(

(By the way, I take much the same approach in my classroom: Your views and beliefs are fine no matter what they are as long as you think,attempt to learn, and respect others.)
 
knarfeng said:
...That's a lot of hating over a knife...
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From the movie Red Dawn:
Colonel: All that hate's gonna burn you up, kid.
Robert: Keeps me warm.
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You're right, of course. I'll admit that, and I'll do it unapologetically. Lie about military service to this country I love and you'll earn my anger. A whole lot of it. I'm even okay with some people not understanding that.
 
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