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Do you bring your knife to Church?
- Thread starter Will
- Start date
As a minister, I have always carried a knife, in church and out. I have consciously and unconsciously carried one in church.
Is a pocket knife a weapon? absolutely not, unless of course you do carry one for that purpose! Is carrying a gun wrong in church? Yes, I think that would be pretty disrespectful to the Lord, and those in the church.
Is carrying a pocket knife in church wrong ? No, I do not think so.
As long as your not whittling in church, or causing a disruption, or distraction, I do no think its a problem.
I think part of the problem today is we need to stop listening to what society says is wrong and right.
Society is good at "calling evil good" and "good evil" (Isaiah 5:20), its been that way for a very long time now (such as the subject of protecting unborn babies, different subject of course). They do not always get it wrong, but often (many) times they do. As a minister and believer in Christ, I have never found anything to "back up" any kind of thinking, or basis that says its wrong to carry a pocket knife in church. The good sense the Lord gives us though, would tell us not to cause trouble, or disruptions in church.
Emanuel,
as far as your references to scripture. I would have to say that this scripture is not used in the context that you may think. I do take note however that you state you are not Jewish, or a Christian.
What you spoke of, namely:
"When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end." So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." -Luke 22:35-38
Jesus is telling them to aquire the swords to fulfill the propecy in Isaiah 53:12 (which pertains to the circumstances of His capture).
12Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.
(Isaiah 53:12)
Jesus in verse 37 of Luke 22 quotes this verse in Isaiah 53 to tell what must happen during His capture, He is numbered with the "transgressors".
If you read luke 22 and read down to verse 47 (then 53) you can see what happens:
47And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48But Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"
49When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, "Lord, shall we strike with the sword?" 50And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear.
51But Jesus answered and said, "Permit even this." And He touched his ear and healed him.
52Then Jesus said to the chief priests, captains of the temple, and the elders who had come to Him, "Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs? 53When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness."
(Luke 22:47-53)
You see Jesus was only speaking to them to aquire the swords to fulfill the prophecy spoken by Isaiah in chapter 53, verse 12 of the book of Isaiah.
When it came to violence, Jesus did not advocate the use of lethal force:
39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. (Matthew 5:39)
Also coupled with the fact that Jesus told them in verse 51 "permit even this", where He heals the servants ear, it is the idea of loving your enemy.
I hope this does not offend you Emanuel. I only wanted to clarify this for you.
So with all that said, a pocket knife is a tool, and as long as it does not cause trouble, disruptions, etc. there is certainly nothing wrong with carrying it in church, unless of course you carry it as a weapon, and then its your consciense between the Lord and you, then you would have to ask yourself, "what would Jesus do?" (no pun intended).
Sincerely In Christ's love,
John
Is a pocket knife a weapon? absolutely not, unless of course you do carry one for that purpose! Is carrying a gun wrong in church? Yes, I think that would be pretty disrespectful to the Lord, and those in the church.
Is carrying a pocket knife in church wrong ? No, I do not think so.
As long as your not whittling in church, or causing a disruption, or distraction, I do no think its a problem.
I think part of the problem today is we need to stop listening to what society says is wrong and right.
Society is good at "calling evil good" and "good evil" (Isaiah 5:20), its been that way for a very long time now (such as the subject of protecting unborn babies, different subject of course). They do not always get it wrong, but often (many) times they do. As a minister and believer in Christ, I have never found anything to "back up" any kind of thinking, or basis that says its wrong to carry a pocket knife in church. The good sense the Lord gives us though, would tell us not to cause trouble, or disruptions in church.
Emanuel,
as far as your references to scripture. I would have to say that this scripture is not used in the context that you may think. I do take note however that you state you are not Jewish, or a Christian.
What you spoke of, namely:
"When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end." So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." -Luke 22:35-38
Jesus is telling them to aquire the swords to fulfill the propecy in Isaiah 53:12 (which pertains to the circumstances of His capture).
12Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.
(Isaiah 53:12)
Jesus in verse 37 of Luke 22 quotes this verse in Isaiah 53 to tell what must happen during His capture, He is numbered with the "transgressors".
If you read luke 22 and read down to verse 47 (then 53) you can see what happens:
47And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48But Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"
49When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, "Lord, shall we strike with the sword?" 50And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear.
51But Jesus answered and said, "Permit even this." And He touched his ear and healed him.
52Then Jesus said to the chief priests, captains of the temple, and the elders who had come to Him, "Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs? 53When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness."
(Luke 22:47-53)
You see Jesus was only speaking to them to aquire the swords to fulfill the prophecy spoken by Isaiah in chapter 53, verse 12 of the book of Isaiah.
When it came to violence, Jesus did not advocate the use of lethal force:
39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. (Matthew 5:39)
Also coupled with the fact that Jesus told them in verse 51 "permit even this", where He heals the servants ear, it is the idea of loving your enemy.
I hope this does not offend you Emanuel. I only wanted to clarify this for you.
So with all that said, a pocket knife is a tool, and as long as it does not cause trouble, disruptions, etc. there is certainly nothing wrong with carrying it in church, unless of course you carry it as a weapon, and then its your consciense between the Lord and you, then you would have to ask yourself, "what would Jesus do?" (no pun intended).
Sincerely In Christ's love,
John
Go to the First Baptist Church and always have my Spyderco Navigator unclipped in the bottom of my right pocket. I can't think of a single time I've used my knife during church for anything, but if I need to open a box or package for some reason I can. With most men there you can see the distinctive bulge in the pocket where their knives are. Nobody comes in carrying a bowie knife or a large fighting knife, but a small subdued pocket knife. I'm positive no one in my church would object.
as a church history major I can think of all times throughout the last two thousand years that christians carved each other up over doctrinal squabbles. Maybe the churches should have metal detectors. Do you suppose mosques should have bomb sniffing dogs? As for the pastor with the gun phobia........ thats pretty self righteous for a man who is a follower of the god who ordered the genocide of the inhabitants of Canaan. just my 2.5 cents
anduril,
Yes, unfortunately there have been catholic and protestant denominations that have persecuted each other. Then there are the crusades, Its a terrible shame.
As for the Pastor? No, I am an Evangelist, my name is John, its nice to meet you!!!
AS far as a gun phobia, I have none. I spent 8 years active duty AF. I was in Desert Shield/Storm. Ive seen more than I wish to (when it comes to violence, war, etc.).
Guns? I own many guns. I have always like to hunt, target shoot. When it comes to carrying guns, I think its nonsense.
Anyone who truly knows me knows that I am the last to play the "self-righteous" one. I know what a sinner I am and in need of God's grace everyday, and every minute, second of my life. If I gave you any other impression (cant imagine how you would come to that conclusion?), then I appologize.
As far as God ordering the Israelites to take over canaan, yes He did:
2And I will send My Angel before you, and I will drive out the Canaanite and the Amorite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite.
(Exodus 33:2)
, but he also made it possible for everyone to recieve forgiveness (of sin) and become His people:
23Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth,
And I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy;[f]
Then I will say to those who were not My people,[g]
"You are My people!'
And they shall say, "You are my God!"' (Hosea 2:23)
You may conisder the Lord harsh, but after weighing it all out, personally, I would have to disagree, anyone who would love someone enough to give the life of their own Son to save them, says enough for me. Aside form that, God is the creator, He can do whatever He wills, He always has, He always will:
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."[f] 16So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."[g] 18Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" 20But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
(Romans 9:14-24)
Now Paul the apostle is saying here that "what if God", not "God did", he is only making a statement that God has the right to do as He wills, and He does.
Personally for me, He has done to much in my own life and the lives of those I know, that I could never deny His love, for me, or others .
Im really sorry you feel the way you do, its too bad. Im not going to get into a "fight" with you over this, but I would have to disagree with you. If you would like to learn more you can visit: http://pohom.tripod.com/
Aside from that, welcome to bladeforums!!!
Everyone here trys to be fairly respectful, so please try to do the same!!!
Yes, unfortunately there have been catholic and protestant denominations that have persecuted each other. Then there are the crusades, Its a terrible shame.
As for the Pastor? No, I am an Evangelist, my name is John, its nice to meet you!!!
AS far as a gun phobia, I have none. I spent 8 years active duty AF. I was in Desert Shield/Storm. Ive seen more than I wish to (when it comes to violence, war, etc.).
Guns? I own many guns. I have always like to hunt, target shoot. When it comes to carrying guns, I think its nonsense.
Anyone who truly knows me knows that I am the last to play the "self-righteous" one. I know what a sinner I am and in need of God's grace everyday, and every minute, second of my life. If I gave you any other impression (cant imagine how you would come to that conclusion?), then I appologize.
As far as God ordering the Israelites to take over canaan, yes He did:
2And I will send My Angel before you, and I will drive out the Canaanite and the Amorite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite.
(Exodus 33:2)
, but he also made it possible for everyone to recieve forgiveness (of sin) and become His people:
23Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth,
And I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy;[f]
Then I will say to those who were not My people,[g]
"You are My people!'
And they shall say, "You are my God!"' (Hosea 2:23)
You may conisder the Lord harsh, but after weighing it all out, personally, I would have to disagree, anyone who would love someone enough to give the life of their own Son to save them, says enough for me. Aside form that, God is the creator, He can do whatever He wills, He always has, He always will:
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."[f] 16So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."[g] 18Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" 20But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
(Romans 9:14-24)
Now Paul the apostle is saying here that "what if God", not "God did", he is only making a statement that God has the right to do as He wills, and He does.
Personally for me, He has done to much in my own life and the lives of those I know, that I could never deny His love, for me, or others
.Im really sorry you feel the way you do, its too bad. Im not going to get into a "fight" with you over this, but I would have to disagree with you. If you would like to learn more you can visit: http://pohom.tripod.com/
Aside from that, welcome to bladeforums!!!
Everyone here trys to be fairly respectful, so please try to do the same!!!
ARtsig1
Banned
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- Jul 20, 2000
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- 3,692
God created us in the first place, and as a result He has a right to do whatever is needed. I know that God is real because He has done things in my life that no man could do. It's a matter of knowing because you know that you know...not sure of the sense that makes, but it works for me...unless I try to say it three times real fast! We, as a society, have gotten so intelligent that we have become much smarter than God..................at least that is what we believe.
Again your beliefs may differ and that is what life is all about. These beliefs happen to be mine.
Again your beliefs may differ and that is what life is all about. These beliefs happen to be mine.
My knives are tools, not weapons. As tools, they are with me everywhere I go (except for when I'm flying, and then they're packed away). I always have (at a minimum) a CRK Umfaan and a SAK on my person. Have carried a knife of one kind or another every day since my 7th birthday. No telling when I, or someone, will need them.
AJ
AJ
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I carry everywhere.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2001
- Messages
- 156
I really like this thread. Ive been a christian for 4 years, and a knife enthusiast since childhood. ive carried a knife and leatherman on my belt every sunday since recieving jesus. ive never been approached negatively for it, in fact, my pastor often is borrowing one or othe other for repairing speakers, cutting rope, whatever! plus a large numebr of the men in my church are contractors and have their knives all the time. ALso, ive personally seen people new to church make friends because of a mutual love of knives and as a result come to a saving faith in Jesus. God can use ANYTHING for his purposes. So, if a knife can draw people to a first step towards christ in church, then i dont see it as a problem being there.
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Rev.i've made my peace with Him and we'll just have to agree to disagree on carrying a gun to church.normally have a Clipit on me,or a voyager leatherman d200 there all tools in my humble thoughts.
i was talking to my mom about this, and she had some good stuff to say. She said she has no problem with it, as long as no one else in the congragation would be offended. As Paul said, if something we do offends another believer, we should not do that thing while that person is around. So, beacuse some of the ladies at my church would freak out at my CUDA Maxx, I shouldnt take it to church. But when my Dodo come, it might be more acceptable to certain members at my church. Oh, and for the record, my mom thinks my Maxx is a cool knife. 
Thor
Thor
[some of the ladies at my church would freak out at my CUDA Maxx, I
Thor[/QUOTE]
They might freak if you were to whip it out and wave it around, but if it is safely in your pocket only you and the lord will know. If the lord didnt like knives he would have given us bigger canine teeth to rip our meat.
Thor[/QUOTE]
They might freak if you were to whip it out and wave it around, but if it is safely in your pocket only you and the lord will know. If the lord didnt like knives he would have given us bigger canine teeth to rip our meat.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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- 90,915
Dr. Thor said:
Not being familiar with Paul myself, I don't know what his actual statement might have be. But given the Law of Unintended Consequences, it sounds like the meek will NOT inherit the Earth, rather the easily offended will inherit the Earth, as the meek kindly defer to every hyperventilated whim of the easily offended.
Don't be so sure those other women will freak at the sight of that knife Your mother didn't.
Interesting reading. I'm not religious and no longer a Scout (partly due to their descrimination of non-religious people).
I worked for ten years at Philmont Scout Ranch, one of the world's best-known Scouting facilities. I can assure you that there is no such 'rule'. Religious services are held regularly in the backcountry and in basecamp. Any knife that a Scout can carry would be allowed in any of the services or activity areas.
Furthermore, by inventing such a rule it gives the wrong message to youth about knives as weapons, particularly the small folding knives that Scouts are allowed to carry.
-Bob
I worked for ten years at Philmont Scout Ranch, one of the world's best-known Scouting facilities. I can assure you that there is no such 'rule'. Religious services are held regularly in the backcountry and in basecamp. Any knife that a Scout can carry would be allowed in any of the services or activity areas.
Furthermore, by inventing such a rule it gives the wrong message to youth about knives as weapons, particularly the small folding knives that Scouts are allowed to carry.
-Bob
Emanuel
BOUNCED EMAIL: I need to update my email address in my profile!
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rev_jch,
No worries, mate. I wasn't offended, quite the contrary I was hoping not to offend the Christians here.
I only posted that because I found it on the net and thought it might be of interest to the Christians here.
Best wishes,
Emanuel
No worries, mate. I wasn't offended, quite the contrary I was hoping not to offend the Christians here.
I only posted that because I found it on the net and thought it might be of interest to the Christians here.
Best wishes,
Emanuel
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2004
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- 24,730
I hope I'm not stepping on any religious toes, but there's a difference between inadvertently offending (?) someone, and purposely doing it. There's nothing inherently offensive or threatening about having a knife in one's pocket. Or even a gun. I mean, do people feel threatened when a cop is standing around with a gun on his hip? No. Why? Because they know his intentions. So unless you're waving the knife around or purposely scaring people with it, another person has no reason to be offended by an inatimate object in the pocket of a well-intentioned person.Dr. Thor said:
There's nothing inherently offensive about a t-shirt, but wearing a "Big Johnson" shirt or one that says "#$%@ YOU, YOU @#$%ING $#%@" (an uncensored one is available at a nearby record store) definitely is motivated by ill intentions.
I'd bring my bali or auto to a church, but I wouldn't be flipping it or firing it open in the pews.
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anyone wears a shirt like that to my church, and i will whip out my knife!Planterz said:
just kidding.
but they would get to check out my cool boots. up close.abe m.
Esav, here is the passage I was talking about:
1CO 8:9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. [10] For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? [11] So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. [12] When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. [13] Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.
I was equating eating food sacrificed to idols to carrying knives in church. Neither are wrong, but they might cause a weaker brother to stumble.
As for the other women freaking, they would. But common, its a Maxx! I dont think they would be scared of a slipjoint or Dodo or other small knife.
Thor
1CO 8:9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. [10] For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? [11] So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. [12] When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. [13] Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.
I was equating eating food sacrificed to idols to carrying knives in church. Neither are wrong, but they might cause a weaker brother to stumble.
As for the other women freaking, they would. But common, its a Maxx! I dont think they would be scared of a slipjoint or Dodo or other small knife.
Thor
Since this has gotten away from the original camp question, I'll just add one more thing:
IF I were to attent religious service, and IF I were to carry a knife, I would want it to be something appropriate. Most of the church attendees around here dress up on Sunday - jacket, tie, suit, etc. A small, classy, inconspicuous, traditional-style pocketknife with a natural handle material would match that sort of costume.
If it was a hillbilly church in a barn or a cowboy church on the range, I would wear a bowie on my belt.
-Bob
IF I were to attent religious service, and IF I were to carry a knife, I would want it to be something appropriate. Most of the church attendees around here dress up on Sunday - jacket, tie, suit, etc. A small, classy, inconspicuous, traditional-style pocketknife with a natural handle material would match that sort of costume.
If it was a hillbilly church in a barn or a cowboy church on the range, I would wear a bowie on my belt.
-Bob
When i was in HS youth group i always had a knife, and everyone in the youth group knew I had it, and i was the first person asked any time something needed cutting/fixing. Our youth group would go on camping trips and everyone eventually got used to my many knives. Quite funny my first year in the youth group, went on my first camping trip with them. I was shaving a stick for a marshmellow with a fixed blade, couple people saw it and jumped. And it was only a 4" blade! LOL I still carry a knife to church all the time. There was one Bible study i used to go to that every guy had a knife and the knives went to school too.