Doesn't make sense to buy anything other than a cold steel?

[Skar]

I think this thread has run a long course in short amount of time.

I don’t get this toughest biggest knife need.
Cs will work I suppose, I don’t have one.
TBH I don’t like how they look and I also think the blades look to thick.

The torture test vids are garbage, if they amuse you then all good. I haven’t done anything like that to knife. I don’t expect to ever need anything like that from a knife either.
Pics are gold here.

 

[Grizzly3]

This has been an enjoyable read. I can't help but remember that for 18 years beginning in the early 1970s a medium stockman, 3 bladed Old Timer was used every day. One blade would dull, I'd move to another and when it needed it, I'd use my soft and hard Arkansas stones to refresh all the edges. Cold Steel wasn't around yet and Gerber, Kershaw and others were just becoming popular with their locking blades. You just learned to be careful and aware of how much stress you exerted on a blade and were also mindful to never get your fingers under it just in case it closed on you. I have to wonder if back in the day, even when there were vast numbers of designs and companies making those slip joint knives if there ever was a conversation like this one. I think we just picked a knife with the blade shape we wanted that would suit our purposes and used it. Sure, most folks had numerous pocketknives, but most folks carried one pocketknife, day in and day out for years and years. We are really spoiled today. Oh, it's great to have all these choices today and I rarely if ever carry a slip joint, even though I still admire them. But I think we had more common sense than to go around destroying good knives just so that we could brag about them, or thinking we would need one for all kinds of unimaginable, unlikely scenarios. We just carried a pocketknife because we knew we needed one throughout the day. I do remember a story years ago where an old gentlemen found himself pinned against a fence with a buck's antlers up against his chest. He managed to get out his trusty slip joint pocketknife and repeatedly stab the deer in the neck until it backed off. Amazing. Who would have thought that possible. No failure of the pivet, no breaking of the blade. It just did what a knife does. I think when Buck came out with their add that their knife could cut through a steel bolt, many thought that was just foolishness, maybe wondering a bit if it were possible. But anyway, I'll probably chuckle all day thinking about the monkey and his pipe wrench. That guy sure is a strange one. Imagine having him for your neighbor.

 

[afishhunter]

Makes sense for me.
I have a couple CS folders: 22KK KUDU ring lock, and a 20KJ KUDU LITE slipjoint, and a FINN BEAR fixed blade.
I rarely tote one or more of them on me.
The 22KK is, however, clipped to one of my rollators (along with several other knives and a LM multi-tool.) The FINN BEAR "lives" in that rollator's frame mount shopping/tote bag.
I carry the FIN BEAR (or a Mora Number 1) on me as a Sgain Dubh, when I don a Kilt.

The KJ20 is in a hunting overall's sleeve pocket ... I think ... Havent worn either in years.

The two KUDU are recent manufacture, blade steel "upgraded"(?) to 5CR15MoV from the German Krupp 1.1441.
I don't know why CS downgraded the blade steel.
My FINN BEAR is an older manufactured (came with the nylon canvas sheath.)

I prefer multi-blade "traditional" knives with no redundent blades for their vesritility.
I believe CS has two multi blade slipjoints - a Stockman and a trapper pattern.
Both are way outside of my budget.

 

[Astrogator]

Just about any knife can get the job done , just about any knife can break .

 

[JeremiahWeaver09]

That threaded hole they make in the spine for something to help open the knife, is a design that I will forever avoid. Years ago I had a Katz with that design. Yes, it was a much thinner blade than the Cold Steel pictured, but they still have installed a fracture line that can break and snap the blade if you were to put enough pressure there. Yes, I know you are not supposed to pry with one, but sometimes that is the only tool available. That's what happened with my Katz. Back when I drove an Astro Van, I left the keys in and locked it. They have flipper windows on the rear and if you can pry one open enough to slip a finger in, you can open it enough to open the side door lock. Well the blade held up just long enough to get a finger in and then snap. Right down the rest of the blade, following those threads they drilled down from the spine. So, take this for what it's worth. Don't pry with a knife, and certainly don't pry with one that has that sort of drilled hole in it.

cold steel has used that feature on some of their knives for decades now i believe, their older model ak47 had the thumbdisk screwd to the spine like that as well and i never saw anyone on here post about their cold steel blade breaking apart from that feature, the cold steel demko version of the talwars use it also and they seem to hold up pretty well during torture tests

 

[alan0354]

But testing doesn't tell you how good it is. If you look at how climbing gear gets tested you see when and how it breaks, not that you can eventually beat it into submission. The order of testing methods, sample size and a dozen other variables mean that most knife torture tests are largely pointless. Unless they can provide a direct comparison to something else, or to a specific failure mode, they mean almost nothing. Sure a single direction "against the lock" pull test is repeatable and may have value. But a lock holding or not while being beaten on from different directions doesn't tell me if the lock is peening, bending and recovering, or working looser/tighter. It doesn't tell me if the pivot threads are failing, washers are galling or stress zones are building in any particular location. Partly that is a cost thing, no one that I know of can get 100 knives to do ten cycles of ten tests per model.
And if you've ever worked with an apprentice, you will know that some people just naturally find the way to break things, even things that shouldn't be breakable. Does that mean they are bad items? Maybe, maybe not. Knife testing relies heavily on the tester, and it's so easy to manipulate,

Last, the fundamental assertion that your version of an EDC knife is the only valid reason for carry is a logical fallacy. For those of us who cannot carry a knife for self-defense purposes by law, and who carry it for other utility purposes, or for sporting/recreation, is that somehow less valid? Is my carry of an EDC which is good for food prep less valid since I cannot rely on restaurants and so may have to prepare a meal with little notice, less valid because I'm going to pick something good for food, and not getting into a fight? Or is my work EDC which is all about solving odd problems less valid? Because I cook and fix things far more often than I self-extract from vehicle crashes and ambushes. And honestly where I live, if I had to present a judge with a piece of pocket jewelry to make my case, I'd probably be in a better situation than if I had a vic paring knife in a cardboard sheath in my pants.

It sure mean something of the test. Just like how IIHS test the cars. I spend a lot more money to buy cars that have the safest result particular the roof test. I choose ones that can take 6 times the weight of the car(very few), good side impact also. It's not whether I will experience, I hope I never have to. BUT if it ever happens, that might make a difference between life and death.

At least car can be for show and all, the performance. Other than a very few( emphasize very very few people) that actually stop and look at a knife, 99.9% of the people don't even know the difference other than how big they are. People don't hang it openly so people can see, it's mostly conceal carry. How it look is absolutely not important.

As for cutting food, paper or boxed. To me, that's an excuse to use the knife. I honestly do NOT use it for food, cutting boxes and paper. Folding knives are so much harder to clean than to just walk a few steps to get a kitchen knife. I don't want to dull my knife cutting boxes. Might be once in a blue moon in picnic, I would rather using plastic knives than dirty the folder.

Bottom line, nobody cares what knives you have, nothing like cars, handbags and all that. It's a TOOL.

 

[craytab]

To me, an EDC knife is for self defense, and really emergency situation where that's the only tool you have to get you out of a jam. If the knife can get me out of the jam once in my life time, it's worth carrying my whole life.

Talking about skilled. I practice knife fight on a heavy bag with plastic knife to get the feel, not just carrying it around and never practice. It would be a big mistake for people to carry one and never practice, thinking that they can use the knife to defend themselves.

Well, looks like your whole argument fits into the "right tool for the right job" category. As in, most people carry a folding knife as a convenient cutting tool. You don't, and that is fine for you, but don't try to apply your ethos to the rest of us.

This has been an enjoyable read. I can't help but remember that for 18 years beginning in the early 1970s a medium stockman, 3 bladed Old Timer was used every day. One blade would dull, I'd move to another and when it needed it, I'd use my soft and hard Arkansas stones to refresh all the edges. Cold Steel wasn't around yet and Gerber, Kershaw and others were just becoming popular with their locking blades. You just learned to be careful and aware of how much stress you exerted on a blade and were also mindful to never get your fingers under it just in case it closed on you. I have to wonder if back in the day, even when there were vast numbers of designs and companies making those slip joint knives if there ever was a conversation like this one. I think we just picked a knife with the blade shape we wanted that would suit our purposes and used it. Sure, most folks had numerous pocketknives, but most folks carried one pocketknife, day in and day out for years and years. We are really spoiled today. Oh, it's great to have all these choices today and I rarely if ever carry a slip joint, even though I still admire them. But I think we had more common sense than to go around destroying good knives just so that we could brag about them, or thinking we would need one for all kinds of unimaginable, unlikely scenarios. We just carried a pocketknife because we knew we needed one throughout the day. I do remember a story years ago where an old gentlemen found himself pinned against a fence with a buck's antlers up against his chest. He managed to get out his trusty slip joint pocketknife and repeatedly stab the deer in the neck until it backed off. Amazing. Who would have thought that possible. No failure of the pivet, no breaking of the blade. It just did what a knife does. I think when Buck came out with their add that their knife could cut through a steel bolt, many thought that was just foolishness, maybe wondering a bit if it were possible. But anyway, I'll probably chuckle all day thinking about the monkey and his pipe wrench. That guy sure is a strange one. Imagine having him for your neighbor.

Great point. Think of all those people who didn't make it because they didn't have the latest CS stabinator 3K with the strongest lock ever made. Oh wait...

 

[alan0354]

You could successfully apply this same argument to knives from nearly any company. They all make a variety of sizes and shapes.

Depending on who gets to a thread first, a reader might be convinced that a Spyderco PM2 and a Sebenza will fill all of anybody's cutting needs.

Might be right, too. Back it up with a proper toolkit, and you'll likely never need more than one general purpose knife.

I have also lost confidence in liner- and frame locks, after a near miss that was entirely my fault. So, while I agree with some parts of the OP, I also have some different opinions about other parts.

Cold Steel makes the kind of knives you won't be afraid to get dirty, but they're far from the solution for every situation. At the very least, you should have a capable fixed blade, and something nicer to go with your suit and tie. CS makes some capable fixed blades, but they fall short when it comes to "barbecue knives".

The Cold Steel testing is only about survival. There are other situation that don't call for that. BUT, it's informative to know how far you can push. Their knives are always heavy and thick, it's not for EDC if anyone dress up in suits and all. Then you can still find torture testing using on knives that a light, thin. It's about the design of the knife

I personally think Highly of Steel Will, their Cutjack 3.5" is only 3.7oz, very thin. You can hide it anywhere. But given the weight, it's a very good design with almost no weak points for the weight. It has 0.25" diameter pivot that's about the biggest of knives. It has a strong level design for liner lock meaning it can take the most force for the given weight.

For situation of formal wear, you cannot carry a Cold Steel, so you look for the next best thing.

Too bad I cannot find any torture test on Steel Will. I did prying test on the cutjack, it survived 2 rounds. I put it on a big vice and bend. For the 3.7oz 3.5" knife, it's not too bad. Their 6oz Warbot is so much more robust, I bet it can survive Joe X torture test.

 

[craytab]

I would rather using plastic knives than dirty the folder.

Bottom line, nobody cares what knives you have, nothing like cars, handbags and all that. It's a TOOL.

Is it a tool if you don't use it?

 

[alan0354]

Well, looks like your whole argument fits into the "right tool for the right job" category. As in, most people carry a folding knife as a convenient cutting tool. You don't, and that is fine for you, but don't try to apply your ethos to the rest of us.

For people live in wilderness, you might need a knife to do a lot of things. But for most of us living in cities, I think the #1 purpose of a pocket folding knife is for emergency and self defense. Just ask city people, I bet large % will say self defense as #1 reason for carrying a folding knife.

It is so much trouble using a folding knife to eat as you have to really clean all the small cracks and all in the knife. Much easier to use a plastic knife where you can find easily everywhere. I have a box cutter at home and when I was in office before, no reason to dull the knife I carry.

 

[alan0354]

Is it a tool if you don't use it?

Knife is tool to save my life in self defense and emergency. I just hope I carry my whole life and never have to use it.

Unless someone carry a gun, the knife is about the most effective self defense weapon that is legal to carry(with restrictions).

 

[Alone]

And those same idiots are going to be crying the blues when their knives can’t cut worth piss, or hold an edge to save their lives. And all of this is coming from a sharpened prybar enthusiast.

The other day, I banged a 2.5' piece of rebar against both a rock and a steel pipe...5000 times a piece.

Because of my empirical testing, I am now ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that a 2.5' piece of rebar is the toughest knife made.

 

[alan0354]

The other day, I banged a 2.5' piece of rebar against both a rock and a steel pipe...5000 times a piece.

Because of my empirical testing, I am now ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that a 2.5' piece of rebar is the toughest knife made.

Can you carry it everywhere you go? Do you have the strength to swing it effectively for self defense. I practice stick fight using my cane that's only 21oz, Takes a lot of practice to swing that one effectively. For heavy rebar is so much heavier, you swing and miss, it's take forever to recover and swing again. You'll get killed in between swings.

Also, can you cut food, cut boxes and paper with rebar?

 

[Kettleman]

I love this thread, 6 pages of troll food from one post from a troll that never came back so a different troll took over.
Classic.

 

[Jsega51]

Knife is tool to save my life in self defense and emergency. I just hope I carry my whole life and never have to use it.

You admit to carrying a knife, you don’t use that knife for normal daily tasks cutting materials? Are you the person cutting janky ass edges in everything holding the scissors wide open only using one side?

 

[killgar]

Here's me Cold Steel/torture test video experience.

Folding stilettos have always been my favorite style of knife. When I was around 15 years old I bought a Kissing Crane folding stiletto, and it was a prized possession. But I was not happy with it's construction. Although it was a good representation of what folding stilettos were, it was not what anyone would describe as "robust". As a result, I dreamed of owning a heavy-duty stiletto.

I had been aware of the Cold Steel Ti-Lite 6 since it came out, but I wasn't interested in the design. Then in 2015 I watched the CS "Proof" video of the Ti-Lite 6, and watching that video I was thoroughly impressed with how strong the knife was, so I bought one, and it immediately became my all-time favorite knife.

I have no intentions of ever using any of my Ti-Lite 6's in any manner depicted in the CS "Proof" video, but like I said, owning a heavy-duty folding stiletto was a dream of mine, and the Ti-Lite 6 is that dream come true. If it had not been for that "Proof" video, I never would have bought one.

As far as Joe X, I've criticized him harshly on this forum in the past. But then I saw that he did a Ti-Lite 6 video, and out of morbid curiosity I decided to watch. Despite my negative opinion of Joe X, as a result of watching the video I couldn't help but be even more impressed with the strength of the Ti-Lite 6, and I like the knife even more because of it.

Just like with the CS "Proof" video, I have no intentions of ever putting my Ti-Lite's through the abuse that Joe X did, but I still like knowing how strong they are, and how reliable the lock is, if for no other reasons than personal satisfaction and pride of ownership. Who says that ones appreciation for a knife must be based solely on practicality?

I make this comparison- If I bought a pickup truck, with the intentions of only driving it in the city on paved roads, and someone made a video where they took the same make and model, bone-stock, and ran it through some brutal off-road obstacle course, and the truck survived everything the guy could throw at it, I'm sure I would appreciate the truck even more, because even if I never intended to take the truck off-road, I'd still like knowing what it was capable of.

I still have mixed feelings about Joe X, and I don't normally watch his videos, but I'm not as critical of him as I used to be. I don't consider Joe X videos to be "tests", and they aren't anything close to scientific, I look upon them for what they are- a guy beating the hell out of a knife. Some may find something of value in them, some may not, to each their own.

 

[craytab]

For people live in wilderness, you might need a knife to do a lot of things. But for most of us living in cities, I think the #1 purpose of a pocket folding knife is for emergency and self defense. Just ask city people, I bet large % will say self defense as #1 reason for carrying a folding knife.

Ha, no. It is for everyday normal cutting tasks. I guarantee.

It is so much trouble using a folding knife to eat as you have to really clean all the small cracks and all in the knife. Much easier to use a plastic knife where you can find easily everywhere. I have a box cutter at home and when I was in office before, no reason to dull the knife I carry.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but it sounds like you might be a very messy eater.

Knife is tool to save my life in self defense and emergency. I just hope I carry my whole life and never have to use it.

Unless someone carry a gun, the knife is about the most effective self defense weapon that is legal to carry(with restrictions).

I carry a gun for SD. You know the old saying about a bringing a knife to a gun fight. A knife is actually a horrible SD tool. Who wants to be that close to a threat? I'd rather have gun, stick, baton, pepper spray. Further, I carry a fixed blade if I want strength. And get this, I carry a multi-tool if I want tools. Lastly, I carry a folding knife, mostly just to cut things. All those other things are for emergencies or SD. Folding knife is the last of many better choices. I, and most people, want their folding knife to cut things day in and day out, you know, like a knife.

Right tool, right job.

Oh, and throw away plastic knives suck.

 

[Grizzly3]

cold steel has used that feature on some of their knives for decades now i believe, their older model ak47 had the thumbdisk screwd to the spine like that as well and i never saw anyone on here post about their cold steel blade breaking apart from that feature, the cold steel demko version of the talwars use it also and they seem to hold up pretty well during torture tests

I'm really not in the mood to watch him go crazy again. Maybe later in a weaker moment out of curiosity. But as for me, I will never, ever buy a knife again with that feature where they drill straight down from the spine to attach a flick open device. When you look at where my Katz blade broke, it began at the drilled threads and ran straight down the blade. Maybe with a thick enough blade that might not happen, but for me, I really could care less. I'll never buy another that has that potential. Now of course, we all know not to use our knives as a pry bar because it is common knowledge that they may very well snap. Maybe one made of 5160 or new leaf spring steel wont, but I'm not going to risk it ever again. There are just too many other knives for sale that do not use that design. I didn't say foolish design, but really, it might be. Maybe they could test one of their blades at the factory to see if it will snap right there. If so, then the mfg might be satisfied with the results, but I'll just buy something else.

I can't help comparing this to glass. Scribe it and then snap it. Or springs, there are rules about not nicking them or doing certain things to them or they too will break where there is some kind of spot for the break to begin. Well drilling a blade to my way of thinking and from the experience of that thinner blade snaping, tells me to just avoid it. You may be fine with that. No problem, enjoy.

 

[Grizzly3]

Ha, no. It is for everyday normal cutting tasks. I guarantee.


I'm sorry to break this to you, but it sounds like you might be a very messy eater.


I carry a gun for SD. You know the old saying about a bringing a knife to a gun fight. A knife is actually a horrible SD tool. Who wants to be that close to a threat? I'd rather have gun, stick, baton, pepper spray. Further, I carry a fixed blade if I want strength. And get this, I carry a multi-tool if I want tools. Lastly, I carry a folding knife, mostly just to cut things. All those other things are for emergencies or SD. Folding knife is the last of many better choices. I, and most people, want their folding knife to cut things day in and day out, you know , like a knife.

Right tool, right job.

Oh, and throw away plastic knives suck.

Why then do we always, habitually, even with maybe some deep down knowing that a knife may be the last thing you have to get you out of a jam, make sure we always take one with us? There may be more to this - for some folks - then just carrying one to cut things - boxes, strings, whatever. I conceal carry everyday, but I also like having a decent pocket knife with me. Sometimes it may be small for church or if you work in an office. Sometimes it may be built so that your hand won't ride up on the blade if you ever have to stab someone or something. No one in their right mind wants to do that, but you never know when the fickle finger of fate may point you out. You may run out of rounds, a gun may jam, you may be too up close to do much else then maybe reach for your knife. There are all kinds of reasons to have one with you. If you have ever been in a war, you may very well have a phycological attachment to having one close. Most here are beyond the West Side Story gang wars I hope and would not be foolish enough to get into a knife fight. Most here probably never trained with one. I haven't, but when I thought we might get overrun in VN and only had 5 20 round mags for the new M16 we were issued, I went and got a machete. We like and carry knives for all kinds of reasons that some may not understand or even share in.

 

[knarfeng]

For people live in wilderness, you might need a knife to do a lot of things. But for most of us living in cities, I think the #1 purpose of a pocket folding knife is for emergency and self defense. Just ask city people, I bet large % will say self defense as #1 reason for carrying a folding knife.

It is so much trouble using a folding knife to eat as you have to really clean all the small cracks and all in the knife. Much easier to use a plastic knife where you can find easily everywhere. I have a box cutter at home and when I was in office before, no reason to dull the knife I carry.

I am an urban dweller. I use my knives pretty much every day to
>open packages
>Cut flashing off plastic parts I need to use to fix something.
>Trim a wayward branch in the back yard, or trim back a branch which is in my way on my walking path.
I'm 71 and have carried and used knives since I was 6. I have NEVER used a knife for self defense.

Knife is tool to save my life in self defense and emergency. I just hope I carry my whole life and never have to use it.

Unless someone carry a gun, the knife is about the most effective self defense weapon that is legal to carry(with restrictions).

That's BS. A walking stick is a far better self defense weapon than a knife. A stick requires little training. Effective use of a knife does.