Dog "Ownership"?

[Esav Benyamin]

No, no contest at all -- you just said your say and implored the rest of us not to say anything because you have heard it all before.

That's not what a discussion is about.

Controversy over pit bulls is driven by media reaction to individual stories.
The CDC isn't pure either, having treated firearms as a disease phenomenon.

And how did we once again go from people's attitudes towards their dogs in general -- as owners or family or partners or friends or whatever -- to demonizing pit bulls? Let the Crusades begin !?

 

[pitdog]

Pitdog no offense sincerely meant.

I have to weigh in a little here.

Pits (yes, I know they get mistaken for others but they are not a true breed per say) have a bad rep for a reason. The breed has an unsound mind even though individual Pits are champs in obedience, raised well, socialized and they babysit the newborn. Those exact dogs have turned and turned hard without provication and with no warning.

Of course not every Pit will attack and make fine pets but they ALL have the "POTENTIAL" to snap. A Pitt snapping and a Yorkie is 2 very different things altogether. Labs for example as a breed were never bread to fight thus its not inate to their way of thinking.

The CDC has stats that enlighten to say the least.

I trained and bred dogs for 10 years so I know a bit about the species.

Pits are banned in many places not because there is a holy war or government conspiracy toward the breed but because its warranted. I must say Pit owners are much like their dogs and run a very good PR campaign to clear the breeds name but it is misplaced.

When training in public places the only dogs I have had consitant problems with are Rotts & Pits. Yes, other dogs can be a problem but not with the same consistency. I carry a large folding blade when out with the dogs for this very reason as I have had 2 very nasty encounters unprevoked, by perfect dogs with never any history of violent behavior, just like yours.

Unsound and ticking bombs IMHO.

PLEASE!!!! Lets not get in to a link posting PR campaign as I have read ALL the pro Pitbull propaganda and dont buy it.

I am just stating my opinion from experience and credible statistics as I see them. You have every right to own one and love one but please keep an eye on it and your insurance up to date.

This is all I have to say in this thread. No, pissing contest today.

Skam

I can only really speak for the British breeds bro as mine is an English Bull Terrier/Staffordshire cross.I also knew many people with both Staffordshires and English Bulls. The Pit Bulls and American Staffordshires are totally different breeds and I just guessed they would be the same temperement !!!

 

[skammer]

No, no contest at all -- you just said your say and implored the rest of us not to say anything because you have heard it all before.

That's not what a discussion is about.

Controversy over pit bulls is driven by media reaction to individual stories.
The CDC isn't pure either, having treated firearms as a disease phenomenon.

And how did we once again go from people's attitudes towards their dogs in general -- as owners or family or partners or friends or whatever -- to demonizing pit bulls? Let the Crusades begin !?

I cleaned up body parts after a pit attack, there is no discussion for me. Until you are there its conjecture and propaganda. Lets hope others never experience it.

Thats all.

Skam

 

[pitdog]

As the Mother of a Bully and Pitdogs wife, I feel I must stick up for ALL bully breeds. I had doubts when Pitdog wanted a Bull Terrier as at the time our Son was only 5, but our Bully is the best ever and I do feel its how you raise them. Like children, they need a firm but fair hand. My Sister and her family are currently staying with us from the UK and our Bully fits in perfectly with all the kids and loves playing along with them. Give Bully's a break. Like the old saying goes "give a dog a bad name"!!!!!!!

 

[skammer]

As the Mother of a Bully and Pitdogs wife, I feel I must stick up for ALL bully breeds. I had doubts when Pitdog wanted a Bull Terrier as at the time our Son was only 5, but our Bully is the best ever and I do feel its how you raise them. Like children, they need a firm but fair hand. My Sister and her family are currently staying with us from the UK and our Bully fits in perfectly with all the kids and loves playing along with them. Give Bully's a break. Like the old saying goes "give a dog a bad name"!!!!!!!

Fair enough. By sister owns one and he is a good dog but hes never alone with my kids as I have seen the damage so called "good bullys" can do.

Just keep an eye and never fully trust them while you shower them with affection and enjoy them.

Dogs are wonderfull creatures.

Skam

 

[boef800]

Apologies for hijacking the thread to all and to the threadstarter especially,that wasn't my intention.
And no angriness here on my part like you assumed shotgunner11.
I just like dogs in general and the bulldog blooded breeds in particular.
From what I've read in and inbetween the lines of your post I smelled something what might not be there.And I thought,hey come on say this BF-fellow that there's no reason to have reservations towards their new pup.
@Esav:
you hit the nail 100% onto the head :thumbup:
@skammer:
well...so many things come to mind.For not going to much overboard just a few things.
Sometimes IT IS really just all Mediahype and BS.Just take a look at the worldwide dogbite statistics...'nuff said.
You should not let ANY dog of ANY dogbreed unsupervised alone with small kids.
So called "good bullys" you say...well,over 90% of the dogowners I encounter are just plain to stupid to even judge their own dog.Sure many dogs called "good bullys" by their owners are just a remote shadow of what a true APBT would be,you make the mistake and name that poorly bred dogs Pitbulls when they aren't it in reality.
As for APBT being not a breed.I think then you are talking about a whole another thing.Talking about mongrels which look crafty and may have AmStaff in them?Or about American Staffordshires from showlines with blown up heads like a basketball and questionable temperament?And calling it then a Pitbull attack,when such a dog bites someone?
"Breeding" dogs for ten years says not much if any,sorry.

Greetz,Alex

 

[shotgunner11]

Sorry Skammer, I just don't buy it.

Take you first post and replace the word pit with any other breed and its almost all still true. Hell, replace it with human and its still true.

Any dog can change in temperment, can snap, its not pitbull specific.

The bad rep Pits get comes from: Number one the media blowing things out of porportion.

Number two, the damage the dog is capable of when it does attack.

Number three, the stigma given to the dogs by all the (explitive deleted) who abuse the dogs and train them to fight and kill in a ring.


I cleaned up body parts after a human attack, there is no discussion for me. Until you are there its conjecture and propaganda. Lets hope others never experience it.

My brother is one and he is a good guy but hes never alone with my kids as I have seen the damage so called "good humans" can do.

See how silly that sounds. Dogs are individuals, just like people.

 

[pitdog]

English Staffordshire Bull Terriers are actually called Nanny Dogs through history because of how good they are with children ! How many other breeds have a moniker like that ?
My dad once had a Beagle that he had to sell due to it biting me when I was a kid. As an adult I have been bit by a Border collie and my friend was also bit by a Border collie when we were hiking.
My Aunt had a German Shepard that just tripped one day and ripped everything to shreds in the house only to be told by the vet " Yeah this happens a lot with these ! "
Dogs are just like people some can be bad, some good they are all individual.

 

[MEAT57]

I just recently had to put down my 13 year old boxer-pitbull mix. He was without question the best dog I have ever had. I have watched him as three kids pulled on his lips till they were wider than he was, only to watch him shake his head and lick them. He was a fantastic watch dog in the house because if he didn't know you or you weren't OK'ed by my family you would not come through the door. Otherwise he absolutely adored people and was an 85 pound baby. I will say that I raised him with a good measure of tough love as any owner of a large and powerful dog should be ready to do.I also had a friend of mine in my early 20's( 34 now) who had a female pit who was absolutely crazy. She was raised by an crazy guy we were aquainted wit and she never recovered. My point in posting this is to say that we should all be careful about blanket generalizations about any breed . Remember stereotypes are often proven to be wrong and are only perpetuated to serve someones purposes whether they be politically, socially, or financially motivated.


Also about the biteforce question I think that has been answered scientifically like on poster said and the highest biteforces in the dog family are attributed to the wolf-shepherdlike dogs. I currently have a two year old Anatolian Shepherd. He is small for the breed at 28 inches tall and 100 pounds, but he is still growing. I definately believe that his bitforce is on par with any bulldogs judging by the way I have watched him dismantle a cow thighbone.



Thanks,
Chad

 

[Wolf_1989]

My Aunt had a German Shepard that just tripped one day and ripped everything to shreds in the house only to be told by the vet " Yeah this happens a lot with these ! "

Was it left alone at the time?

I ask because if so, that sounds like separation anxiety (instead of aggression) and german shepherds because of their strongly loyal nature are prone to it.

My Thor is half german shepherd and he has a CONNIPTION when I leave for work.

 

[DeadeyeLefty]

I agree that you 'own' a dog, but they're not really 'property' either....kinda like a kid (or so you tell them !)
This is my bud, she's a 2 1/2 year old rescued ShepX and she's waiting for me to throw the frisbee!

 

[pitdog]

Was it left alone at the time?

I ask because if so, that sounds like separation anxiety (instead of aggression) and german shepherds because of their strongly loyal nature are prone to it.

My Thor is half german shepherd and he has a CONNIPTION when I leave for work.

Yes bro it wasn't an aggressive act, I was just making the point that any breed can have hiccups when it comes to behaviour and a lot of the time it is down to our doing !!!!
As a side note my next door neighbours in the UK had a large German Shepherd and he was a great dog, very soft, obedient and loved a lot of fussing !!!!

 

[Wolf_1989]

Thor doesn't go into a destructive rage though. He just barks and whines like crazy.


But on the other hand, he was totally housebroken within two weeks. He's very smart and very, very friendly.


I had a friend in high school who had two Chows. One was a big fluffy friendly teddy bear. Its brother wasn't. They were both from the same litter of pups and raised by & with the same family.

We have neighbors down the road who had a pitbull and a rat terrier back then. The pitbull was a sweetie. The rat terrier was vicious.

 

[Wolf_1989]

I agree that you 'own' a dog, but they're not really 'property' either....kinda like a kid (or so you tell them !)
This is my bud, she's a 2 1/2 year old rescued ShepX and she's waiting for me to throw the frisbee!

Look at that sweet face. What a beauty.

 

[DeadeyeLefty]

Thanks Wolf, I thought I had the only Shep/Elk...man, their tails are where they keep their personality, eh? (My dog's not THAT bushy in the snow though - it must be a real treat when he sheds it !)

Remember that digging and chewing are often just a dog's way of relieving boredom. Time to walk her more often, take her swimming, etc.

I for one agree with demonizing pits....it's taken the heat off of shepherds! I got mine as a pup from a 2 week old litter that was found with the bitch caring for them under a stump in someone's back 40 (SPCA kept them until after they were weaned though). The bitch and a previous pup were guarding a grow op apparently. When they finished with the house, they left the dogs to fend for themselves . The point is, I saw another dog from the same litter in the back of a car maybe a year later and it was all teeth and noise. I talked to the owner in passing and he said his dog had always been tough to train as well. That says to me that the dog doesn't know it's the alpha's job to stand up to a perceived threat to the pack...Or else it thinks IT is the alpha.
Then again, I've done a lot of work with mine with the goal of letting her play freely with my cousin's twin (now)4 year old girls. She doesn't mouth, she doesn't bark and she doesn't growl...but she's 3/4 Shepherd ? She doesn't have to, that's my 'role'

I had a Shep(purebred) when I was growing up and her temperament was similar to this one's. Seeing so-called 'problem dogs' always makes me wonder how much is the breed and how much is the owner ? Training a dog to be the submissive pack-member may seem mean-spirited to some, but that's how DOGS train dogs. (no, I've never nipped at her shoulder!) Putting a dog down for biting someone is cruel because the bite didn't have to happen IMHO. Then again, I'm no trainer and my dog was acquired as more a family companion pet than a working (guard) animal...

 

[bodhi_]

I think I need to clarify about the pitbull thing. I have no problem with them at all, I just know they can be aggressive players when their puppies. All dogs can, but even as puppies, pits can have devistatingly powerfull jaws and I've had bites bad enough to break the skin just playing tug o war with a friends pit puppies.
.

The teeth of any puppy are like needles, nothing to do with the strength of the jaws. Frankly you won't be able to open the jaws from a Dachshund with your hands. The bigger the dog the stronger the jaws, has nothing to do with the breed.

And before anybody says it, pits don't have locking jaws, and they don't have 72 teeth either.

 

[bodhi_]

Pits (yes, I know they get mistaken for others but they are not a true breed per say) have a bad rep for a reason. The breed has an unsound mind even though individual Pits are champs in obedience, raised well, socialized and they babysit the newborn. Those exact dogs have turned and turned hard without provication and with no warning.

Of course not every Pit will attack and make fine pets but they ALL have the "POTENTIAL" to snap. A Pitt snapping and a Yorkie is 2 very different things altogether. Labs for example as a breed were never bread to fight thus its not inate to their way of thinking.

Unsound and ticking bombs IMHO.

PLEASE!!!! Lets not get in to a link posting PR campaign as I have read ALL the pro Pitbull propaganda and dont buy it.

You have a very strange attitude about dogs, are you you train them?? Any dog can attack but most dog attacks against people happen with guard dog breeds, also sheperd type dogs can be quite aggressive. So when dealing with any dog you should remember it is a dog after all.

One of my dogs (boerboel) turned on a trainer because she believed that she could order it around, sorry but this dog only accepts order from us. He turned and attacked without warning. In retrospect it was our fault because we gave her the leash.

Regarding pro-pit propaganda, don't buy it just keep you mind open because in the media a dog that bites is a pit, regardless of the breed. The headline "fierce fighting pit mangles innocent passerby" sounds better than "family dog bit stranger".

 

[pitdog]

My dogs tired now of all the Nasty Dog talk !!!

Maybe we should put a lid on the topic !!!:thumbup:

 

[rosconey2]

i have a pittrott-120 lbs of skunk stinking terror-well no terror,dumb s o b wont even get off his dog bed to see whos at the door,yet alone bark at them- if you aint a squirrel,cat or rabbit he aint interested in you--


i remember growing up it was about Dobermans going insane and killing people,then german shepards now its pitts-

people cause the problem by not training properly-pitts dont kill-pitt owners do

 

[runningboar]

There are many types of dangerous dogs besides pits, they just get the lions share of the press. Also with certain elements of our society pits have become more popular and there are many more around now than there have been, IMO due to the image associated with them, which leads to more conflict and incidents. No breeds should be controlled or regulated, just like guns, it is up to the owner, which should be held responsible, to control and contain their animals. If the dog attacks the owner, so what, the owner knew that the animal could be dangerous and was willing to take the risk. If it attacks someone else unprovoked, the dog should be destroyed and the owner held liable, not the breed. Chris