down2man (George Huang)

uyotg said:
Considering that he said he would accept full responsibility and then didn't, I think it would be worthwhile to share some identifying information with the community. There's a chance he might just be scamming you. As Mag pointed out, some things seem pretty shady here. Even if he's not a scammer, he still did not keep his word.

I hope it all works out in the end, however.
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Sadly, I do not have his bladeforums user name. I do however have his email, real name and shipping address.
 
if it's allowed I would post it up so if there is anyone who has dealt with him in the past they'll be able to call him out.
 
Really sorry to hear this. Bottom line -verbal or email "assurance" isn't worth the paper it's written on from anyone.
I've had dozens of knives (folding and fixed) sent from the US, some have even been opened by Customs ,without a hitch.
I'm surprised at the cost of$50. Usually its a round $6 or $7 maybe $15.
I also think postal insurance is a complete scam.
My only bad experience with an ebay deal was over a little Schrade knife which I paid for and the guy never sent from US.After I contacted him he offered me something "similar".
Sorry thats not what I bid for in the auction. Want my money back. Lodged an appeal with PP. Success.
 
김원진;11088039 said:
if it's allowed I would post it up so if there is anyone who has dealt with him in the past they'll be able to call him out.
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George was one of the guys that I traded with a while back when I first started trading here (like Dec. 2010.)

At the OP's request, I sent him an email asking him to opine on this matter. From my perspective, he was generally a good & honest guy so I am little surprised that this transpired. I'd give him a day or two at minimum to respond (the time difference being what it is).
 
I don't know if this would be any use but have you tried contacting Australian Customs Service.
However I don't hold out much hope of ever hearing back from them.It could be worth a try.
 
That's quite a disheartening tale about shipping international, especially when you think you're covering yourself the best you can. As other posts have mentioned, research and practicing due diligence is key. Hope this works out someway.

I think shipping USPS Express Mail International Insured is at least $35 for a mid size folder and I've paid as much as $42, lest my local USPS is ripping me a new one- big time.


meako said:
...I'm surprised at the cost of$50. Usually its a round $6 or $7 maybe $15...
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Quick little update...

I just received this email from customs:

Dear Dylan,

Thankyou for your enquiry.

Customs does not have any electronic systems for the tracking of international mail.

The tracking of registered international mail is handled by Australia Post. The contact number for Australia Post - International Mail section is 131 318. Basically once the goods arrive into Australia the tracking system would read under Customs control, this does not mean we have the goods it means that they have crossed the Australian Border.

Customs will only have record of your package if we are holding it for the payment of Customs duty and GST (i.e. is over AU$1000 in value or contains alcohol or tobacco products) or if the package contains restricted and/or prohibited items. In this instance a Customs Notice will be issued within 2-3 business days of the package arriving into the country.

If you have received a Customs notice or are supplied a Customs reference number by Australia Post please contact our postal control section on 1800 011 018.

Kind Regards,

Rod H
Senior Customs Officer
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Anyone have any idea where I should go from here? Does this mean that George might have actually got the package?

If I contact the Australian post and find out the Umnumzaan was actually delivered I will be incredibly upset.

Thanks again for everyone concern and help in this matter.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Then, we are told, the buyer contracts with the seller to pay FOB shipping point (allowed by our Uniform Commercial Code). This means the buyer assumed the risks of non-delivery beyond the shipping point.

Those are contradictory positions.
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If I understand your statement there is no contradiction.

Regardless of whatever agreement/contract you have with the buyer, or what the UCC says, by accepting standard PayPal as payment you have a separate and unrelated contract with PayPal to provide proof of delivery (to the address they specify) if asked. If your contract with PayPal is in conflict with your contract with the buyer, the failure is yours, not PayPal's.
If PayPal demands proof of delivery and you cannot provide it, PayPal will remove the money from your account, or suspend your account until you return the money to them.
I suppose you could challenge PayPal in court, but your evidence would be pretty thin since you will never get PayPal to agree to change their terms of use to comply with the particulars of your agreement with your buyer. My guess is a judge would tell you to just secure a different form of payment that does not conflict with the conditions of your agreement with your buyer.


Take this example:
Let's say I sell a knife to my next door neighbor who pays me with PayPal, and then picks up the knife from me in person. I get him to sign a receipt for it, make a copy of his drivers license, and the transaction is recorded by my security cameras and microphones.
A few days later he files a claim with PayPal that he never received the knife. PayPal then asks me for the proof of delivery, and I tell them about the buyer living next door to my house and picking up his purchase in person, signing a receipt and everything. PayPal will say, sorry, but if you can't prove delivery by USPS, UPS, FedEx etc.. you will have the funds removed from your account and returned to the buyer.
It may seem silly to have to mail the knife to your next door neighbor, but by accepting the money from PayPal I agreed to deliver, with confirmation, the sold item to the address PayPal provides me using an approved carrier. I failed to do that, so PayPal is justified in their actions. They don't, and shouldn't care why I failed to follow the rules I agreed to when I accepted the funds.

If the OP wants his money back he will have to do the same thing I would have to do to my neighbor, sue the buyer in court, or try to have him/her arrested for theft/fraud.
 
Magnam,

Obviously Dyan is a rookie like allot of people and he has learn a hard lesson.. The guy (George) said he would take responsbillity which if this can be proven should say something to paypal! Most people know paypal provides better protection for the buyer.. This guy George should take some responsibility here IF he stated he would take responsibility once it was shipped... I ship International by USPS EXPRESS which is suppose to always get a signature and it only happens 75%of the time.. USPS SUCKS and if George said he takes responsibility he needs to step up! Your last advise to Dyan about "Here is the lesson to be learned" is crap! You should give good advise not crap! You are being a smartass.. that about all you gave the poor guy! Pushin him around.. You say "Trust your gut".. Comon.. Hey Magnam does you GUT tell you about the winning LOTTO numbers!
 
DylanMW said:
Quick little update...

I just received this email from customs:




Anyone have any idea where I should go from here? Does this mean that George might have actually got the package?

If I contact the Australian post and find out the Umnumzaan was actually delivered I will be incredibly upset.

Thanks again for everyone concern and help in this matter.
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I don't think the notice would go to you, it would go to the receiver only. so it seems questionable now whether or not h has it and the lack of communication.

ooitzoo- I'm currently in the east as well, and I normally.check BF on my phone, the few times I'm on a laptop I occassionally will check BF so I feel like unless he's having some issues this shouldn't be a hard thing to reply to. its currently 837pm over on this side of the world. So hopefully this gets figured out. It just sucks when people are mislead or suckered.
 
dax0007 said:
Magnam,

Obviously Dyan is a rookie like allot of people and he has learn a hard lesson.. The guy (George) said he would take responsbillity which if this can be proven should say something to paypal! Most people know paypal provides better protection for the buyer.. This guy George should take some responsibility here IF he stated he would take responsibility once it was shipped... I ship International by USPS EXPRESS which is suppose to always get a signature and it only happens 75%of the time.. USPS SUCKS and if George said he takes responsibility he needs to step up! Your last advise to Dyan about "Here is the lesson to be learned" is crap! You should give good advise not crap! You are being a smartass.. that about all you gave the poor guy! Pushin him around.. You say "Trust your gut".. Comon.. Hey Magnam does you GUT tell you about the winning LOTTO numbers!
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I don't play the lotto. My gut tells me it is a waste of money and I have better chances of getting struck by lightning twice on the same day. Regardless of what you think, learning to trust your gut is a critical skill. Often, you will intuitively know if something is wrong in a situation. When you ignore that feeling, that's when you aren't trusting your gut, and it can have bad consequences, as the OP experienced. Read his post again. He said he didn't want to do the deal but "reluctantly" agreed. Bad idea.

Back on topic, maybe I could have written my e-mail in a nicer way, but the lesson for the OP really is to think harder and smarter about deals. As for this George guy supposedly assuring the OP that he would take all responsibility for the shipment, we are missing some information:

1. Did "George" really make such a promise? Under what circumstances? The OP makes a lot of fatuous assumptions in his post (which was the real target of my scathing criticism), so how do we know he's not just telling us what he "thinks" George said? I need to see proof that "George" really said that.

2. Does the OP have proof that the knife even reached customs? "George" allegedly promised to take full responsibility if the knife got lost or delayed in customs. Well, assuming that he really said that (which we haven't established), I need to see proof that the OP sent the knife and that it got stuck in customs. If it didn't, then "George" didn't break the promise which he may or may not have made.
 
If I receive a knife via USPS express our german postal service (DHL) will take over after customs clearance (and fortunately they would only have a problem with big autos, balis and push daggers - not with regular one-hand-opening pocket knives) and provide tracking information and pass them on to USPS. I would hope that USPS does the same with the australian post, so I would assume it was confiscated by australian customs...
I've dealt with George (and i know his BF user name) and i'm sorry to hear that it looks like his word is not worth $400... He seemed like a nice guy but I guess it's those situations that are responsible for making it "disadvisable" for you guys to ship overseas... :(
 
Magnam,

Good points.. I am no where near as detailed as you.. I just felt for the poor guy.. Agreed a gut feeling is normally something to consider, but hell if I went with my gut feeling on many things I would have WON money at the casino:o).. THere are good and bad buyers out there! We cant judge all international buyers because of one bad experience and its easy to do! My experience allot of international buyers try to barter of the shipping cause i will only ship USPS EXPRESS and I hate that!! Guys from So.America want me to ship 1st class.. Again i should not judge cause there are alot of US buyers he hate to pay inruance.. I wont give my opinion on that! I rather not deal with a buyer who can afford to pay EXACT SHIPPING in US or Internation! Now if they pay with a GIFT i will put in on the back of a donkey!
 
Magnaminous_G said:
I don't play the lotto. My gut tells me it is a waste of money and I have better chances of getting struck by lightning twice on the same day. Regardless of what you think, learning to trust your gut is a critical skill. Often, you will intuitively know if something is wrong in a situation. When you ignore that feeling, that's when you aren't trusting your gut, and it can have bad consequences, as the OP experienced. Read his post again. He said he didn't want to do the deal but "reluctantly" agreed. Bad idea.

Back on topic, maybe I could have written my e-mail in a nicer way, but the lesson for the OP really is to think harder and smarter about deals. As for this George guy supposedly assuring the OP that he would take all responsibility for the shipment, we are missing some information:

1. Did "George" really make such a promise? Under what circumstances? The OP makes a lot of fatuous assumptions in his post (which was the real target of my scathing criticism), so how do we know he's not just telling us what he "thinks" George said? I need to see proof that "George" really said that.

2. Does the OP have proof that the knife even reached customs? "George" allegedly promised to take full responsibility if the knife got lost or delayed in customs. Well, assuming that he really said that (which we haven't established), I need to see proof that the OP sent the knife and that it got stuck in customs. If it didn't, then "George" didn't break the promise which he may or may not have made.
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Well I guess this answers all 2nd set of questions.

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I will screen shot all the emails later when I get home to put an end to any doubt anyone might have.
 
That screen will update to show he has received it within 24hrs of him signing for it at the Post Office. The next update it should have will be "Enroute to Destination" or similar. My best guess just now is that the knife has been forwarded to the Weapons Section for "testing". You have to understand that the knife is not seized till it has been tested and found to fail. Given the time frame I am guessing (nothing more) that George has his letter telling him customs has the knife and he can't have it. If not there is something happening that we are not seeing. Even Paypal should accept that the onus is on the buyer to know HIS laws. I wonder if they would accept a claim on a Kg of Coke shipped from South America and intercepted by the US DEA... if so I am sure the cartels will start using Paypal as their preferred payment ASAP.. ;)
 
See if you can get a Customs number out of George. This late in the game, your knife has probably already been destroyed (or been taken home by a very happy Customs officer). George basically screwed you if he said he'd take responsibility for it and then filed a PayPal complaint.

Shipping folders to Oz is more dicey than ever. I can't even send balisong combs down there since the beginning of the year after a change in the rules.
 
Well, he has been added to my "never do business with" list.

I have shipped one knife to Australia, and will never do so again. Not because my transaction had any problems. It was great, and I was glad to sell the knife to him (small Busse, GW).

I am Con US only now, unless they want to get a buddy to send me a USPS Money order, and I cash it before even looking at packing the knife up.


I am even thinking about taking MO only now. I have seen so many recent charge backs, where all kinds of headache ensue.

I ship signature required, insured for the full amount. But apparently, you can still be screwed.

Hopefully down2man will step up. If he agreed to accept the responsibility that his own country would seize the knife, he needs to be a man, and pay you the money back.


Or be labeled a thief, cheat and a liar, and added to every single members ignore list and banned.

This won't happen, but he sure as shooting is on my list now.
 
I feel for mate as it is great that you were willing tio ship down under, most people who are active on knife forums here in Australia know the risk but still seem to take the risk on folders, crazy stuff.

I would say that you should be re-imbursed, as he should take all responsibilty knowing full well the state of the laws we are living with here.

http://www.australianbladeforums.com/vb4/member.php?175-down2man
 
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