Ed Fowler You Need to open your eyes

Michael Lovett said:
This post hits the nail on the head! And not understood by so many!
(Many can draft the surface of a knife to perfection and never know the knife.) This is the most profound and truest thing to my mind, that you have ever printed here Ed!! Once again, my hat is off to you! There is much to learn and understand here, if one will only stop and consider. ;)

Mike Lovett
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Hey Mike are you building what you want to build or are you "building what the collectors are buying" as implied! and don't get mad at me for asking honest question to a friend?

You are certainly one of the makers that can develop the surface of knives to perfection:thumbup:

Lorien I pulled one of your earlier comment

"There is a disconnect within the custom/handmade knife forum, and probably the knife community in general, when it comes to handmade knives I think - high end complicated collectible vs. affordable simple tool."

To start with that is the problem and the two definitions derived from folks .....that topic alone has many threads some get really heated


Ed no need to worry for the future of knives as you can see there are many young makers just as passionate about building both working knives and art knives as the old guard. It is exactly what they want to make, if you feel makers are or must bow to authority and caress traditions well I for 1 find nothing fouler:D



Spencer
 
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DXC said:
If you are a full time maker and feed your family with those wages there is only one judge that really counts and he/she is the customer. Do what works for you and feed those kids. All the rest is just fluff. You need to be a businessman first and then a knifemaker or you will be forced back into your old day job. Make what your customers buy.
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This seems to be a perfectly logical view from the business perspective, it may however not hold true for the most successful makers. Successful makers, those whose output is in demand, of course are making knives that the knife buying public likes. But, in most cases these makers are making their knives, in their style and what satisfies them. It just so happens that they are in tune with their customers.

Are they good businessmen, with a good sense of what sells, and where the market is going? The top makers are and do. But, it's not a case of the tail waging the dog.

I think Ed would cringe at DXC's perspective, it's just not him. Ed makes and tests knives because he has to. If he never sold another knife, he would still happily make and test knives. Not because he is independantly wealthy, but because knife making is what drives him. Vincent Van Gogh, never sold a painting in his life. To many that would be a failure, to some they would see a driven artist that didn't live to see his market.

Be true to yourself, make your knife, if there's a market that will give you a living, that's when you go full time. Nothing is sweeter in life than to do what you truely love to do and have someone pay you for it. That is success.
 
PhilL said:
Ed, you're stirring up the pot again, just like you did with your article on makers leaving shows early.

You're making people think and react. I know that you don't expect or want everyone to think like you do in your writing or in your knives. You want people to think for themselves and never be satisfied with less than their best. You want them to share the sheer joy that you get with each knife that you complete. It brings you one step closer to your dream of Exalibur. Knowing that it is a dream and a journey that has no end. But, that the joy is in the journey.
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I was a newbie when I met Ed in Oregon in about 1989. He had this same inpact on me at that time as you have written. I was confused and he set me to thinking about what I really wanted to make. I owe him allot for the joy I have now. It has been a wonderful journey and its only getting better for me. Thankyou Ed.
 
SAR said:
We can hang with Ed question is can Ed Hang with Us?

Spencer
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Spencer well said I can see his side Spence from what I got from reading the aticle.. Db

Stebbins Handmade Knives
 
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dombunn said:
Spencer well said I can see his side Spence from what I got from reading the aticle.. Db
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Pretty clearly now and really wished I had not wrote that.....it was something written more from emotion and this was still a week after I had received my issue

Hey hindsight is always 20/20 right, does that change the way I feel about what was written.......nope but I get it a lot better now.

Spencer
 
PhilL said:
Are they good businessmen, with a good sense of what sells, and where the market is going? The top makers are and do. But, it's not a case of the tail waging the dog.

I think Ed would cringe at DXC's perspective, it's just not him. Ed makes and tests knives because he has to. If he never sold another knife, he would still happily make and test knives. Not because he is independantly wealthy, but because knife making is what drives him. Vincent Van Gogh, never sold a painting in his life. To many that would be a failure, to some they would see a driven artist that didn't live to see his market.

Be true to yourself, make your knife, if there's a market that will give you a living, that's when you go full time. Nothing is sweeter in life than to do what you truely love to do and have someone pay you for it. That is success.
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Not that I disagree with you Phil, but here is a quote from Andy Warhol, who was definitely an artist, a controversial one at that:

"Making money is art, and working is art and good business is the best art."

I DO think the best artists are able to balance what they want to make, and make money at it. My art heroes are not the most famous, but they make or made good money; Coop(Chris Cooper, not Jim Cooper, but he is awesome as well), Johfra Bosschart, H.R. Giger, Big Daddy Ed Roth and Robt. Williams.

Although I am certainly not a fan of his work, I think the art-knife artist John Lewis Jensen is certainly being true to himself, regardless of the work he creates. It is definitely not comfortable knifeware to hold, and I cannot speak to the performance aspects of it, but he makes it, and sometimes, people buy it...not knife people, I would think, however.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
SAR said:
Hey Mike are you building what you want to build or are you "building what the collectors are buying" as implied! and don't get mad at me for asking honest question to a friend?

You are certainly one of the makers that can develop the surface of knives to perfection:thumbup:

Lorien I pulled one of your earlier comment

"There is a disconnect within the custom/handmade knife forum, and probably the knife community in general, when it comes to handmade knives I think - high end complicated collectible vs. affordable simple tool."

To start with with that is the problem and the two definitions derived from folks .....that topic alone has many threads some get really heated


Ed no need to worry for the future of knives as you can see there are many young makers just as passionate about building both working knives and art knives as the old gaurd. It is exactly what they want to make, if you feel makers are or must bow to authority and caress traditions well I for 1 find nothing fouler:D



Spencer
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Thank God, I am one of the Luckiest people on the planet. I get to do for a living exactly what I most love to do!

"LOV'EN EVERY MINUTE OF IT"

M. Love-IT!!!
 
“Where are the new guys making simple but honest working knives?”
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If that question is being seriously asked of the custom knife market in general (as opposed to A.G's event in isolation) then with respect, Ed does need to open his eyes. Such makers are not exactly hard to find. And a lot of the makers turning out fancy, elaborate pieces will also quite happily make you a simple working knife as well. Suffice it to say that I see the custom knife landscape very differently than Ed does.

Roger
 
Steven: Your comment haunts me! The last word I want to be remembered by is as a good business man. During a divorce settlement my soon to be ex-wife made the statement "No offence meant Ed and none taken I hope - but this is just business". I laughed and forever more was free of any positive thoughts I had for her. My attorney kept me from commenting further and it is a good thing.

I am not in life for business, never have been and never will be. In my office is a check for $6,000 dated 1985 from a man who ordered a knife I did not want to make, wire Damascus, skull crusher, spike quill ions and ivory handle. I was selling my best knife for $600 in those days and when I told him no he said "Sure you will - it is just a matter of money". He sent me a check, I sent it back and he sent it back to me. At the time Blue and I were living off of an aged cow that died a slow death from septic metritis, the meat cooked on the fireplace which was kept going because we could not afford propane. It was a long hard winter, but I kept that part of self that is important to me.

Not that you are right and I am wrong, just wanted to voice my sentiments. I will not prostitute myself for any material benefit.
 
Ed Fowler said:
Not that you are right and I am wrong, just wanted to voice my sentiments. I will not prostitute myself for any material benefit.
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Ed, I know what you sentiments are...we have discussed this at length, but I am glad that you brought them to the fore, it benefits those that have read your words without an understanding of the BEING of Ed Fowler.

It is a hard road, and it is a lonely road, until you find like minded folk to populate your world....many of these new makers may very well find a similar path.

As far as you considering it "prostituting", well, let's just say that you are one of the stubbornest SOB's I've known in my life!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I read the piece on the flight back from Arkansas today and enjoyed it as I do most of Ed's articles.

Do believe though Ed that if you don't think there's many new makers producing a fairly wide range of customs out there then you need to get out more. ;) :)

You don't see many at the blade show because the new maker's don't have tables and I'm not surprised there was mostly established makers at AG's.

Keep the articles coming as they make us think and that's always a good thing. :thumbup:
 
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just so we can all see the knife to which Ed referred and was given by Dan Dennehy to AG Russell

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Ed Fowler;

I am not in life for business, never have been and never will be. In my office is a check for $6,000 dated 1985 from a man who ordered a knife I did not want to make, wire Damascus, skull crusher, spike quill ions and ivory handle. I was selling my best knife for $600 in those days and when I told him no he said "Sure you will - it is just a matter of money". He sent me a check, I sent it back and he sent it back to me. At the time Blue and I were living off of an aged cow that died a slow death from septic metritis, the meat cooked on the fireplace which was kept going because we could not afford propane. It was a long hard winter, but I kept that part of self that is important to me.

Not that you are right and I am wrong, just wanted to voice my sentiments. I will not prostitute myself for any material benefit.
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Your statement reminds me of a story I read in one of the knife books about the late James Schmidt. At a show, a wealthy potential customer decided he wanted one of Jim's knives in a timeframe considerably shorter than the current waiting list. He approached Mr. Schmidt and stated his request and added that money is of no object. Mr. Schmidt then replied something to the effect "money is of no object to me either, I have a waiting list that I will adhere to".

Another legendary man that stuck to what drove him was William Scagel. Reading about him is enlightening.

Peter
 
Thank you for posting those photos up Murray. This knife honestly spoke of history, culture, time and place to a degree rarely observed. I have visited the southwest since the early 50's as a kid. I learned from a silver smith living in a dirt floor hogan, running water 100 yards from home. The locals were poor financially, but absolutely wonderful people of the land. They had time to develop their crafts, rugs woven from their own wool, their silver smiths casting their own copper and later silver in home made furnaces sitting in their one room homes working on a craft that was taught then from the blacksmiths of Mexico moving north. Copper and turquoise available in their area since the beginning of time. That knife is a history lesson all by itself. Enough about the knife, I know many will not understand, but to this knife says it all.

It is a lesson in being able to see, understand and duplicate an entire lifestyle and Dan did it honestly with craftsmanship that would make any Navajo proud.

I spent a lot of time looking at her and still smile at the tribute Dan Developed and teaching Neil what could have been forgotten.

Thanks Murray
 
If you like that one, you should check out the work of WildGoo(Chuck Burrows and Tai Goo), David Mirabile ESPECIALLY, Mike Mann of Idaho Knife Works or Daniel Winkler.

I indicate David with emphasis because he is relatively young, completely uncompromising with regard to design and materials, and working in a unique style, fusing clearly forged and textured finishes with a Native Alaskan design sensibility.

All is not lost, amigo, nor is it in danger of being so.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Ed, I have always enjoyed your writing. I have both of your books and really enjoy your style. Keep on doing what you do best. :thumbup: I still would love to own one of your blades. I got a chance to handle one of your pieces at recent rendezvous at my shop two weekends ago. One of the attendees had it with him.
As a maker, I've always made what I felt comfortable making. My customers like my style and to me that is all that matters, satisfying the customer.
Scott
 
I have throughly enjoyed this thread. While I do believe that there are new makers out there that are producing honest working knives I also appreciate stubborn old SOB's that hold true to a line and holler loud even when others lines travel parallel to their own. Those old coots keep all of us honest and remind us to reevaluate and check ourselves.
 
I'm not a knife maker, but a humble buyer. My budget is not great, so when I hear "hunest working knife" I think of a tool of a working man/woman. It is my limited experience that the "new makers" are in general, making more "honest working knives" than the "old guard" if for no other reason than working men and women can afford them. I can't drop >$500 on a knife and use it like I would a $10 mora, for example. Yes, that $500 knife may last longer than a mora, but would it last longer than 50? I don't know. Heck, I can get a knife with "nuclear toughness" and a "no questions asked warranty" for less than $500, much less actually.

I seems that to an extent, Mr. Fowler is encouraging makers to sell a story, when I want to buy a knife. Personally, I don't care if the knife was made from a Mercedes leaf spring (and whatever story that makes that leaf spring sentimental)... What I do care about is that that spring was likely 5160, a steel known for its ideal properties in a hard use knife. What I look for in a knife are constuction, materials, and workmanship that make the knife excel in what it is supposed to do. That the blade was made from a old rusted plow used by your father, and his father, and his father (etc...), to bust the ground around the family homestead for 5+ generations does not matter a whit to me, unless that plow steel has properties that make it a good knife steel. As Mr. Levine says in his forum, "buy the knife, not the story."

As to the factory knifes leading in the innovation, what I have noticed is an increase in factory/custom collaborations. Factories increasing "innovation" by buying the rights to custom designs. That, in my mind, does not equal factories leading custom makers in innovation. Quite the opposite, actually.

And, the quip about "honest working knives" that honest working men cannot afford is spot on.
 
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