Edge Pro Matrix resin bond diamond stones

Diemaker said:
Thanks for asking here. I can't see your images either but from your description I am pretty confident that the stone in question did not get dressed in the center. These diamond stones are pretty hard on the flats they get dressed on so EP does go through quite a few flats a year. The centers wear down faster than the periphery so a dished flat will dress the center of the Matrix stone last, and I think yours didn't get completely dressed. I think all you need to do is dress your stone and it will be fine. Of corse it should have been dressed completely to begin with but these stones do work better after about the 3rd dressing since made so don't be timid about dressing them a few times when new. Again, the ONLY way to dress these stones is with a loose abrasive on a hard flat surface with a little water. Exactly what that loose abrasive is isn't critical but brown aluminum oxide seems to be the best performer, this is what EP sells for these stones. Any other way I have tried to dress the Matrix stones is totally inferior. Oops forgot, a hard stone works very well for maintenance dressing.

I would like to see your photos but until then I have a question. Is the center shinny like in post #159?
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Upon closer examination, yes, the area adjacent to the only area that loads has a glossy quality to it. I have lapped it once with loose SiC, but I will give it another good lapping and see how it does after that.

Thanks!
 
Which grit stone is it? After being properly dressed the stone should be an even matt finish.
 
Diemaker said:
Which grit stone is it? After being properly dressed the stone should be an even matt finish.
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It's a 650. Theres perfectly straight path on the right hand side, maybe a third of the width that doesn't load with swarf. But after you told me what to look for, and catching the right light, it is clearly glazed in that area. I probably just didn't remove enough material the first time, just enough to get rid of the pencil marks. I'll check back in after I can lap it a little later
 
Thanks for letting me know, I have heard of a few stones that didn't get completely dressed now. It's definitly not the diamond settling or being inconsistent, I can assure you of that.
 
Diemaker said:
Thanks for letting me know, I have heard of a few stones that didn't get completely dressed now. It's definitly not the diamond settling or being inconsistent, I can assure you of that.
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Finally got a chance to use the stone, and the second good lapping did the trick. Perfectly consistent now. Thanks for being so active on the community.
 
Hey D Diemaker — I had a thought earlier while using the matrix stones. If this has been covered in the thread already, my apologies.

But have you ever used a nagura on the matrix stones to clear loading during use? I assume it wouldn’t work well on the 80, 250, and maybe the 600. But it may be viable on the 1100 and up. Just wondering if you’ve ever tried it.

I use a cheap King nagura to clear my Venev 150 on the rare occasions when I actually use it. Granted, Venevs use an entirely different resin, but the nagura does a great job of cleaning loading and even exposes a small amount of fresh diamond.
 
I have dressed Shapton Glass stones with Matrix stones and it worked for both very nicely. I have also dressed some Matrix stones on an EP 1000 with good results so I don't think what you use matters too much, it just needs to be flat and at least as big as the Matrix stone. To dress a Matrix stone this way use a little water to develop a slurry, it shouldn't take more than 10-15 seconds of rubbing the two stones together to clean up the Matrix stone. I think this is a viable method of dressing the 650 and finer Matrix stones, it certainly is a lot less mess than using loose abrasive on a plate.

A while ago I ground some different "granite" tile pieces flat to see if they would work as dressing flats for Matrix stones, just haven't tried them yet.
 
Diemaker said:
I have dressed Shapton Glass stones with Matrix stones and it worked for both very nicely. I have also dressed some Matrix stones on an EP 1000 with good results so I don't think what you use matters too much, it just needs to be flat and at least as big as the Matrix stone. To dress a Matrix stone this way use a little water to develop a slurry, it shouldn't take more than 10-15 seconds of rubbing the two stones together to clean up the Matrix stone. I think this is a viable method of dressing the 650 and finer Matrix stones, it certainly is a lot less mess than using loose abrasive on a plate.

A while ago I ground some different "granite" tile pieces flat to see if they would work as dressing flats for Matrix stones, just haven't tried them yet.
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Thanks for the reply. I was actually sharpening some CPM-M4 yesterday and decided to go ahead and try dressing the Matrix stones with that cheap King nagura. It actually worked fairly well. I wouldn't say that it worked as well AlOx on glass but it worked better than isopropyl and a shop towel. It certainly improved the stones' performance.

I think I'll start incorporating it more often. I'll continue using alcohol and a shop towel after each use, then maybe the nagura every few uses, and the AlOx/glass every dozen or so.
 
In a way loose abrasive on a plate does too good of a job. After dressing them this way the stones are super aggressive and it takes a knife or two for the stone to "break in". Probably dressing the Matrix stones on another stone wouldn't wear them quite as much either.
 
Yeah 240 loose grit alum oxide is pretty aggressive on the 2300 and 4000, I usually try to only do that when they need a deep clean. I've also lightly rubbed them together which works fine too, freshens them up and keeps them flat.
 
OhioApexing said:
Hey D Diemaker — I had a thought earlier while using the matrix stones. If this has been covered in the thread already, my apologies.

But have you ever used a nagura on the matrix stones to clear loading during use? I assume it wouldn’t work well on the 80, 250, and maybe the 600. But it may be viable on the 1100 and up. Just wondering if you’ve ever tried it.

I use a cheap King nagura to clear my Venev 150 on the rare occasions when I actually use it. Granted, Venevs use an entirely different resin, but the nagura does a great job of cleaning loading and even exposes a small amount of fresh diamond.
Click to expand...

I use a small piece of 3m lapping film to scrub off the stones. I've been using these matrix stones for a while now and I think they're probably my favorite finishing stones for modern steels.

 
OK, I got done with an extended period with the Diamond Matrix stones and was all sorts of psyched about them (still am). But instead of doing an immediate review I decided to wait and go through my regular stones again while it was all fresh in my mind. For reference, I’m using a Hapstone M2 and recently got to use the new bearing upgrade for the main slide rod, but that's a different review, lol.

My normal stones are the SIC stones from Gritomatic 120,240,600,1000,2500 I also have the standard set of 220,400 and 1200 that came with it. I thought that using both for extended periods would give me a better basis for comparison.
I think the best way I can describe the Diamond Matrix stones is smooth and “respectful”
The 80 and 250 stones are NOT gonna “hog off metal” like I’ve seen described of some stone in that range but they do remove it faster than My SIC stones for sure! One of the biggest differences is the scratch pattern I see after using them. It is sharp and defined and no gouges or overly deep stuff that I have to get rid of with the next stone before it gets to do its thing. And you don't need undo pressure to make them work. No leaning into or pressing down on the rod to get results, its just casual movement.
Now to where I see the biggest change! 650 on up…. Most of my knives don't need a re profile or have deep damage to them so for normal use I would start at 650 or higher. The first few knives I did I used the standard back and forth movement and they work fine. Much easier and faster than the sic stones. Already I’m a believer. But I have a tendency to be light on pressure anyways and don't get big honkin burr’s on the apex like some talk about. On a whim, I just started using trailing edge strokes after that.
BAM! I started getting burrs in half the time and could remove it in 1-2 stroke on the other side.
Now part of the comparison...I still don't get results like that with my sic stones after going back to them. Works great on the DM stones, not on my sic’s….. Maybe its just me, but I like easy!!
The 650,1200,2300,4000 all remove more metal or should I say they produce an edge much faster than I would have thought at a reduced pressure too. The scratch pattern is smoother and tighter than normal due to improved grit pattern in the stone,epoxy, pancake batter, what ever he’s using.
This all part of why, at the beginning I called them respectful, in case you were wondering about that. It becomes a process that takes off the metal and shapes the blade, but in a way that doesn’t abuse and gouge the steel. Respect is the best way I could describe it. I can’t fault my own stones at all, I enjoy using them and get great results with them. But the Diamond Matrix Stones really are an evolution in guided sharpening stones and I don’t know if he’s lucky at finding this solution or a good designer or what, but I’m glad he did and I am gonna put buying knives on hold for a bit to spring for these. It’s the real deal.
 
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Thanks for the great write up! It's been more luck than anything, although I have tried a lot of variations over the years. Lots of advantages to edge trailing strokes and deburring with the leather strop. Speaking of which I never did look at your signature.
 
Hi, there. Have 250,650,1100,2300 of Matrix stones and very happy with them. Agreed - they are respectful. My question is about ceramic knives- will the stones manage them? Any tips?
Also your thoughts on 80 and 4000 grit to complete the set so to say. What are your thoughts - do I really need them for an additional 200 USD here in UK?
At the moment I use normal 120 grit stone and polish tape of 3000 grit.
Thank you.
 
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