Edge Pro Matrix resin bond diamond stones

How did you do that exactly? I use 99% isopropyl and a paper towel. No where near that good.
95% isopropyl and blue paper shop towels. I was quite generous with the alcohol which evaporates quickly. I went over each stone a couple of times and turned my towel as soon as it got dark. So I'd wipe until that area of the towel had removed stuff from the stone, then went to a clean area of the towel. Maybe 30 seconds per stone. Then did it again to get them more clean.

I just received my set of Diamond Matrix stones yesterday, 80 grit through 4000 grit. I tested them on my ZT0566 in Elmax that had seen a lot of use and had chipped out, I'm very impressed with the speed and feel of the the cutting action it's unlike anything else I've ever used. The 4000 polishing stone leaves a refined yet aggressive edge, more aggressive than the 2000 - 3000 polishing tapes from Edge Pro. I purchased some Jende Industries diamond lapping films in 3 micron, 1 micron, and .5 micron to use with some of your new hard anodized polishing tape blanks to follow the progression, I'll share the results as soon as I get them and have had time to test them.
Are you talking about the Edge Pro stones or something else? I only see 250, 650, 1100, 2300, and 4000 on the EdgePro site.
 
95% isopropyl and blue paper shop towels. I was quite generous with the alcohol which evaporates quickly. I went over each stone a couple of times and turned my towel as soon as it got dark. So I'd wipe until that area of the towel had removed stuff from the stone, then went to a clean area of the towel. Maybe 30 seconds per stone. Then did it again to get them more clean.


Are you talking about the Edge Pro stones or something else? I only see 250, 650, 1100, 2300, and 4000 on the EdgePro site.


How were those stones working for your prior to cleaning them? I’ve been almost obsessively cleaning mine, as I find that they don’t cut nearly as well once they start loading. Maybe that’s just my perception. Mine also only load in the center of the stone. Weird.

About the second part, there is a new 80 grit matrix stone that has started making its way to users, though EP hasn’t officially released them yet.
 
They were not cutting as well. As expected they work better when the accumulated debris is removed.

Regarding the center of the stone loading, mine get more loaded toward the center too. I try hard to use the ends of the stone and not just have all my sharpening strokes the middle. For the 3 lower grit stones I'll sharpen mostly on one end of the stone, then rotate it to the other end when I do the other side of the blade. If you mean the center of the stone relative to the sides, maybe you have a high are there? On the flat part of the blade I would expect a wider area of the stone to make contact.

If there's I can test the 80 grit stone I'd be thrilled. If not, I'll patiently wait. (I have a different brand lower grit EP diamond stone that is miserable. It's like sharpening with boulders. It removes material quickly, but the scratches it leaves are almost impossible to remove.)
 
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I delivered the first partial batch of 80s to EP on the 9th, it just takes time to get stuff on their website. They are for sale if you ask. The price is in the $75 range, I don't know exactly what it is yet. This is because I am charging more for them. There is a bit more diamond by weight and they are a PITA to make. The bigger diamond crystals cause a lot of trouble. Use sand to dress them and I suggest a dedicated plate as I fear these stones will dish the plate quickly. Right now I am using some leftover 12" porcelain tiles that seem to be holding up well. They are not very flat but it doesn't matter much with these stones and sand, they are beasts.

How well the alcohol cleans depends on the strength, my bottle says 90%, and how dirty you let the stones get before cleaning. As far as the stones loading up I think this is more of an issue of them settling down after dressing. The first knife or two the stones will be much more aggressive but leave a coarser finish. Once they break in, and you keep them clean, they should work pretty much the same for quite a while. This is the way I preffer to use them as I like less tooth and more polish. If you like the more aggressive character of the stones then dress them more often. I dressed the 650, 1100, 2300, and 4000 last night and timed it. It took me 90 seconds to dress all the stones without rushing, using the 240 grit AlOx from EP. This does not include wetting the plate and applying the abrasive or cleaning up. Just dress the stone and set it in a tray of water, it doesn't take much to maintain them.

Once I start to apex my knife I only use edge trailing strokes. Once you get used to it you may find it easier to use more of the stones length, I did. To use more of the stones width try rolling it a little as you use it, I find this helps use more of the stone's surface.

The mineral oil was interesting but I think it works best on the lower grits, but so does water. It stays stuck to the stones quite well but this also keeps all the swarf from washing off which I worry will cause more contamination problems with the 4k stone. I tried both a low viscosity type for cutting boards and the thick stuff from the grocery store. The cutting board low viscosity oil is as thick as you would want it for the Matrix stones. I will slather a few stones up with it and put them in my lightbulb oven where I cure the epoxy on my switchplates. This will give them a lot of temperature cycling to make sure the oil doesn't attack anything about the stones. After a few weeks of this and no problems I will report back that mineral oil is ok to use if you want. For me it's water. I keep a tray by my sharpener and rinse the stones off after each use. When I used the EP AlOx stones I did the same thing, but I kept them soaking between knives.

Here are microscope photos of the 80 and 250 stones. These are the stones I have been using for awhile and I haven't dressed them in a long time. The 80 grit diamond crystals are around .0062" in size and the 250 are around .0031" for reference.

80-Grit-stone.jpg 250-Grit-stone.jpg
 
Couple of comments: first of all, it's just great that you're here. We could not ask for better help or support. Next, I'll wait for the stones to show up on EP's site. I'm in no hurry for a more aggressive stone.

90 seconds to dress all the stones!!! Surprisingly short and got it. Clearly not the same (at all) as flattening oxide or carbide stones.

Very interesting to read that you're using edge trailing after you apex. I'll try that.
 
I've been using edge trailing strokes after the 650 grit stone, and I've had good results with that.

You where not joking about the 80 grit stone, it has extreme cutting ability even with no pressure. I was altering my scratch pattern from the 80 to the 250 so any deep scratches show up more easily and I don't go to fast to the next stone.
 
Couple of comments: first of all, it's just great that you're here. We could not ask for better help or support. Next, I'll wait for the stones to show up on EP's site. I'm in no hurry for a more aggressive stone.

90 seconds to dress all the stones!!! Surprisingly short and got it. Clearly not the same (at all) as flattening oxide or carbide stones.

Very interesting to read that you're using edge trailing after you apex. I'll try that.


Boom:

https://www.edgeproinc.com/sharpeni...ones/80-grit-matrix-sharpening-stone-p73.html
 
Ordered. This place is not good for my bank account. I have a couple of S35VN blades that are jacked up. Will use this to (hopefully) re-profile quickly.
 
It will do the job, no problem! I am just playing with all my stones now and after the 80 every other stone should only need 10 edge trailing strokes per 3" of knife. The 250 easily cleans up the scratches from the 80. Testing all this again after dressing all my 650 and finer stones then making 100 passes with each stone on a piece of 3-1/4" long CPM 4V Shawn gave me, nice and difficult to sharpen @64HRc. The 80 and 250 probably have over 1000 strokes each and going strong. After the stones have essentially sharpened 5 knives I then make 10 passes per stone, take a photo of what it did with my microscope, then move on to the next grit. When I get a chance I will post some photos.
 
Based on this I am WAY over-sharpening most steels. 10 strokes per 3" would be great and I'll give this a try. I've been doing a lot more with the 650 stone and probably 3-4xthat with the last three.
 
I'm using denatured alcohol and ultra fine microfiber cloths to clean the stones. It works well on the coarsest stones and the finest, but I notice the 650 and 1100 stones they're a little more difficult to clean. Do you have any suggestions on other cleaning methods besides lapping the stones? I'm using water and a few drops of dish soap in a spray bottle that I wet the stones with, I tried mineral oil to help with the loading but it wasn't making much of a difference it seemed to me.

I love these stones though, very satisfied with the purchase.


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I'm using denatured alcohol and ultra fine microfiber cloths to clean the stones. It works well on the coarsest stones and the finest, but I notice the 650 and 1100 stones they're a little more difficult to clean. Do you have any suggestions on other cleaning methods besides lapping the stones? I'm using water and a few drops of dish soap in a spray bottle that I wet the stones with, I tried mineral oil to help with the loading but it wasn't making much of a difference it seemed to me.
KHFj2vC
Pics not showing.
 
Here are the stones with 100 passes on all of them but the 80 and 250, which have over 1000-2000 passes of use. 80 to the left, 4000 to the right with a few extra grits in between I wanted to play with. I keep them wet while using them and rinse/scrub with my finger when done using only water.

100-strokes.jpg

This is after another 50 or so passes.
150-strokes.jpg

Here is what I am grinding on, all but the Kershaw came from BBB. The CPM 4V bar is what I grind on the most to test stones for durability and to break them in for controlled experiments. In a way the most interesting steel is the LC200N, a really hard fine grained steel.
Stufftogrindon.jpg

These photos are of a .055" wide bevel on the CPM 4V bar. It is 3-1/2" long and I made 10 edge trailing passes using light pressure with each grit stone before taking the photo. This is the bare minimum use with each grit before going to the next with this steel since there are some scratches left from the previous stone in some photos.

80 grit on the left, 250 on the right.
160-80.jpg

650 grit on the left, 1100 on the right.
37-17.jpg

2300 grit on the left, 4000 on the right.
8-5.jpg

This is after stropping with 1 micron diamond loaded leather. The strop really shows what scratches are left.
1m.jpg

This is the bevel that I broke all the stone in on with 100 edge trailing passes per grit, it is about .09" wide. Since there were 9 stones in the progression each step was smaller. It really isn't much better than the bevel with 10 passes. Same 1 micron strop on the right.

100-passes-each-grit-to-4k-.09-bevel.jpg
 
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107rjub.jpg

2vrves2.jpg

33lnzuq.jpg


These are what I meant to upload before, but it's been awhile since I uploaded pictures to a forum so I used the wrong link.

Anyway those pictures are from the 4000 grit stone. It's not quite a mirror finish but the scratch pattern is very consistent and light. The edge is aggressive with a little bite, but it'll still push cut paper and shave easily. I've been experimenting using Windex glass cleaner as a lubricant and stone cleaner, I find it works better than plain water and a drop of dish soap and cleans the stones fairly well.
 
107rjub.jpg

2vrves2.jpg

33lnzuq.jpg


These are what I meant to upload before, but it's been awhile since I uploaded pictures to a forum so I used the wrong link.

Anyway those pictures are from the 4000 grit stone. It's not quite a mirror finish but the scratch pattern is very consistent and light. The edge is aggressive with a little bite, but it'll still push cut paper and shave easily. I've been experimenting using Windex glass cleaner as a lubricant and stone cleaner, I find it works better than plain water and a drop of dish soap and cleans the stones fairly well.
Windex is water + surfactant (aka detergent) + ~1% alcohol. Will give it a try. Seems easy enough to make something similar.

I follow the 4K with a wood strop with 6 micron diamond past. I like wood because I get less edge rounding than with leather. No pressure - the lightest possible edge trailing strokes. I do 3-4 per side several times, then 2 per side for the last couple of times. I'll sometimes follow with a 3 micron strop. Not sure it help much.

I also just got the EP 6K polishing tapes. Interested to see how they do on Maxamet and other very hard steels.
 
Windex is water + surfactant (aka detergent) + ~1% alcohol. Will give it a try. Seems easy enough to make something similar.

I follow the 4K with a wood strop with 6 micron diamond past. I like wood because I get less edge rounding than with leather. No pressure - the lightest possible edge trailing strokes. I do 3-4 per side several times, then 2 per side for the last couple of times. I'll sometimes follow with a 3 micron strop. Not sure it help much.

I also just got the EP 6K polishing tapes. Interested to see how they do on Maxamet and other very hard steels.

I follow the diamond matrix stones with Jende diamond tapes. I would recommend them over the stock EP polish tapes on steels that are 60+ HRC or with 3%+ vanadium carbide content, which Maxamet far exceeds both those figures.

I bought 3 micron, 1 micron and .5 micron tapes. The 3 micron tape leaves almost a identical scratch pattern as the 4000 stone so I don't use it anymore, I go straight to the 1 micron and .5 micron which leaves a mirror polish. I'm going to purchase one of Jende's 1x6 EP nanocloth strops and .25 micro polycrystalline diamond emulsion to see how well they work as a finisher.
 
I follow the diamond matrix stones with Jende diamond tapes. I would recommend them over the stock EP polish tapes on steels that are 60+ HRC or with 3%+ vanadium carbide content, which Maxamet far exceeds both those figures.

I bought 3 micron, 1 micron and .5 micron tapes. The 3 micron tape leaves almost a identical scratch pattern as the 4000 stone so I don't use it anymore, I go straight to the 1 micron and .5 micron which leaves a mirror polish. I'm going to purchase one of Jende's 1x6 EP nanocloth strops and .25 micro polycrystalline diamond emulsion to see how well they work as a finisher.
Good info. Been looking for some nanocloth strops. I'm also ordering some diamond lapping films to test those on some EP blanks.

What diamond emulsion do you guys like? I'm using DMT paste which seems fine. For cloth or leather I'd prefer to use a spray.
 
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