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Enforced ZT MAP, will you give Benchmade a second look?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by EDCanAdamas, Sep 20, 2014.

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  1. spketch

    spketch

    Jan 28, 2011
    That's true for those who preordered, but I was counting on that price dropping by $40 or so in a couple months once the usual discounts were being offered. I had planned on an 0562cf and 0620cf. Now I will buy neither new. There are better options for my money elsewhere.

    I haven't bought a single benchmade new since they pulled the same thing, and I won't be buying any new ZTs either. $272 for an 0300 and $260 for an 0560!? No thanks...
     
  2. wazu013

    wazu013 Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 14, 2011
    MAP and MSRP are myths. It's actually Manufacture's fixed price (MFP). Thank the Supreme Court for this one.
     
  3. miltmaldo

    miltmaldo Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 5, 2012
    I'm going to buy China made knives . Kizer knives look sweet with good materials . ZT really dropped the ball . They do have nice knives but the 562 will be my last one .
     
  4. bld522

    bld522

    Feb 3, 2004
    The gig may be up for a lot of potential knife purchasers, Steve. If you take the pulse of the posts in several threads dealing with this subject, it appears that those of us who have been around long enough to have a pretty good idea of what a knife of a given quality should cost aren't going to be willing to pay more for it just because a manufacturer says we should. The only way we're going to bring companies like Benchmade and ZT to heel is by refusing to purchase their products. That seems to be the strategy an ever-increasing number of us have decided to employ, myself included.

    My sense is that this isn't going to work out well for manufacturers who attempt to set pricing for their products. And their attempts to protect their dealers by enforcing pricing policies could end up backfiring on them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
  5. RamZar

    RamZar Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 3, 2013
    More opportunity for quality Chinese knives from the likes of Kizer and Reate. Hopefully, they keep improving and setup warranty/repair here in the U.S. They still need to work on their CS as well.

    Don't underestimate the Chinese. Look at the Alibaba IPO.
     
  6. bld522

    bld522

    Feb 3, 2004
    It goes a lot deeper than that, I'm afraid. If I were a Chinese counterfeiter looking at what's going on over here, I'd be celebrating. Companies like Benchmade and ZT may turn out to be their own worst enemies due to their misguided pricing policies. My guess is that they'll not only lose revenue, they'll have to spend more of whatever is left fighting the increasing traffic in clones. And just because Alibaba cleaned up its act doesn't mean the counterfeiters have gone away. Believe me, they haven't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  7. steveg30

    steveg30

    Apr 26, 2004
    I'll still buy zero tolerance there quality is better than benchmade in my opinion.
     
  8. Scurvy092

    Scurvy092

    Jan 31, 2012
    How come Spyderco and CRK don't catch any flak? Their knives are never on sale.

    Again, this is a NEW issue with ZT (if you want to call it an issue). As other people have stated, in the past you paid MAP for the first while the knife was out and then you could start to find it on sale. This seemed to be working JUST FINE. Then some dealers stepped in and started selling them from go at the discounted price. That's an issue that HAS to be addressed.

    There is one particular dealer in my mind who started the problem and I think I know why. They screwed the pouch having a LONG history of overselling their preorders and never delivering the knives. I think this go around, they got scared that no one was preordering with them because of this so when they got their shipment in, they started blowing them out from the get go to drive the sales.

    Now everyone wants to walk around and pretend like they've been getting these discounts forever when 7 months ago, everyone was ecstatic that they were going to pick up the 0562cf for $240 and absolutely no one said 'Oh, I can't wait to pick it up 6-12 months down the road for $200ish'. Then one dealer starts the domino effect and people on here feel immediately entitled to the lower price.

    If you are one of those people who actually were going to wait on the lower prices, you should blame the dealers who jumped the gun. They are the ones who started this.
     
  9. Sigguy

    Sigguy Gold Member Gold Member

    213
    Sep 1, 2006
    Buying knives was a fun hobby for me. I'm not mad at Benchmade, ZT, or Spyderco I would like to thank them for giving me a wake up call, I needed it.
     
  10. RamZar

    RamZar Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 3, 2013
    Make no mistake about it, Spyderco definitely has a price problem too with the recent and upcoming knives from Japan and Taiwan. However, if you're patient and wait a few months you can get them for 50%+ off MSRP. Fortunately, with Spyderco there are no artificial price enforcements. What doesn't sell has its priced reduced accordingly so that the dealer can move unsold merchandise from the shelves.
     
  11. RevDevil

    RevDevil Super Evil Supermod Staff Member Super Mod

    Nov 9, 2009
    I don't see too much that I like coming from the Benchmade design house. There are some pieces that are outstanding, but the majority of what I really like has been long discontinued. I own pretty much everything I want that is Benchmade (in terms of their newer stuff), my fascination continues for those long discontinued pieces that grow harder to find.

    ZT has designs that are currently more appealing to me, in terms of build and design. Ever since I bought my very first ZT0350 I have been very happy with my purchases. I had to contact warranty service twice. Once was to get some replacement torsion bars and soe screws for a 0301, and the other was to get a stop pin that I stupidly lost while cleaning my knife that had fallen victim to some adhesive that was freshly sprayed. The Hinderer, Onion, and Emerson designs fit my needs just fine at the moment and unless something drastic happens with the price, I don't think it will change my buying habits. Then again, I like all kinds of knives- Spyderco, ZT, Kershaw, Emerson, Hinderer, CRK, and a handful of customs, and a lot of traditional stuff.
     
  12. salmonkiller

    salmonkiller

    Dec 9, 2006
    I am just going to try and save some cash and purchase a real Mc Coy Hinderer.I just will pass on the next LE release from ZT and not buy any production ZT's and only consider in house ZT designs in the future.I should have the money saved pretty quickly.Zt make some sweet knives. Benchmade does also.The only knives I have ever paid MAP for is a Sebenza 25 micarta and a few dealer exclusives.I think I will save up for a Southard or Hinderer Real Mc Coy or just buy another Sebenza.You used to get a darn good production knife for around $100 for a long while, then in the past few years it blew past the $200 mark.I can see the $300,$400, and soon $500 mark blown by for the LE models.BM Gold class is over the $500 mark along with the upcoming direct ZT 0454.I hold no resentments against ZT or BM, but that does not mean that I will forget what value truly means to me.......I tend to not look at price increases through rose colored glasses......
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  13. whp

    whp

    Apr 26, 2009
    Given the value of the knives, I ll be reluctant to buy Benchmades unless an unusually appealing one comes along. When Benchmade allows dealer competition to adjust prices downward, I ll start to look at the brand again. I hope people remain firm in their avoidance of Benchmade until the MAP policy changes.
     
  14. spketch

    spketch

    Jan 28, 2011
    Spyderco has some models are worth the asking price to me, and some that aren't. For the most part though, the prices are in line with the materials. CRKs are worth what they cost, though out of my usual price range.

    Before I knew about the discount codes, I never bought benchmade or ZTs because they seemed overpriced for what they are. I'll just stick with other brands or the secondary market.

    By the time this years ZT models were released, the discounted pricing was the norm. The announced price of $240 sounded great when the discount was assumed.

    No sweat off my back anyway. I'll just buy users eventually and there are other knives to tide me over until then.
    Its money out of ZT's pockets though, and it will hurt all of the dealers.
     
  15. Tripton

    Tripton Gold Member Gold Member

    May 26, 2008

    Why?

    How is this going to work out better for ZT? By selling fewer knives? They are going to be getting the same from wholesalers, so why exactly shouldn't dealers be able to set their prices at whatever they want?
     
  16. presz

    presz

    Nov 12, 2005
    If you are working overtime and can't keep up with demand? This should fix the problem, if that is the problem........If, and I don't think that, they are overpriced and they don't sell at all. Things will have to change, if orders fall way off and unsold stock is sitting on the self at the factory. Whatever the market will bear.

    Vote with your $! Plastic handled BMs are overpriced at $100+, to me.

    TI frame locks with CF scales and M390 blades for $240 are still a great value!

     
  17. spketch

    spketch

    Jan 28, 2011
    You've got a good point there. Some of their newer models are still reasonable at MAP. If they had been announced closer to $300 and I was planning on $240 after the discount I probably wouldn't complain about the price.
    Trouble is, a lot of folks have come to expect that discount and the knives we've been planning to buy for months just shot up $50 or so out of nowhere.

    With the Ti framelocks with CF and m390 at $240, their elmax or s30v blades with g10 look even more overpriced in comparison.
     
  18. RamZar

    RamZar Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 3, 2013
    Check out some of the prices on some of the newer Japanese Spydercos with VG-10/G-10 with MSRP/street price (using KnifeWorks for street price) and discount off MSRP:

    • Battlestation: $320/$187 (42%)
    • Kiwi4: $200/$117 (42%)
    • Worker: $280/$170 (39%)
    • Double Bevel: $265/$155 (42%)

    Street prices seem like a lot of money for VG-10/G-10 folders. Once you reach discounts of 50%+ it gets somewhat more reasonable.

    Street prices on the U.S.-made Spydercos with S30V/G-10 like Para-Military2, Military and Manix2 seem much better although the U.S. plant is lacking in capacity and thus supplies are low.
     
  19. RamZar

    RamZar Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 3, 2013
    Both ZT 0562CF and 0620CF with M390 & CF at a MAP price of $240 offer relatively good value for a very new product.

    However, for $200 you can get a Spyderco Southard with CTS-204P (very similar to M390) and G-10. Compares favorably to ZT 0562CF except for the CF advantage of the ZT.

    With the Southard being around for about 2 years with ample supplies the $200 street price is 50% off MSRP.

    Unfortunately, the same calculus will not come into play for 0562CF and it will continue to be sold at a MAP-enforced $240.
     
  20. miltmaldo

    miltmaldo Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 5, 2012
    This :thumbup:
     
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