Enforced ZT MAP, will you give Benchmade a second look?

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I got a ZT 0777CF for $170, would I pay $225 for it? Nope. :thumbdn:
Will I look at BM again with a 25% price increase? Nope. Nothing all that appealing to me in their line. :thumbdn:
Vote with your wallet folks... There are a LOT of us that buy a LOT of knives and BM & ZT will feel a pinch. Who else is the target audience that they continue to re-release the exact same knife with a different steel or handle material to? If they price them at MAP and enforce RPM (since it sounds like they are forcing a minimum sale price) that knifenuts won't pay, sales will fall.
 
And here's the flaw in the manufacturers' thinking. If a majority of us do, in fact, decide to boycott Benchmade and ZT, who will get hurt the worst and the quickest? Why the B&M shops the manufacturers' pricing policies are presumably designed to protect, of course. Their overhead will remain regardless of the loss of revenues our strategy will inflict on them. Meanwhile, internet retailers can simply circle their wagons and wait for the storm to pass or sell goods that aren't price-protected. Couple that with the misguided notion that B&M inventories are only there to be fondled, never purchased, and at the end of the day internet resellers may be the only ones that are left standing.

To quote Robert Burns, the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.
 
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My opinion is that BM and ZT are enforcing both RPM and MAP simultaneously at all dealers.I have a Question.....What involvement do distributors like Monteng and Blue ridge Knives have in the decision to enforce RPM/MAP agreements/policies.I ponder if it is actually the distributors who apply pressure on BM and KAI for RPM/MAP enforcement???Sometimes I forget there is a middleman between the manufacturers and retailers that include both B&M and online retailers.Is it possible that the distributors are the ones that benefit from RPM/Map agreements more than both small and large dealers.Are distributor small margins being squeezed when retail prices are not on a constant fixed price point?I am just brainstorming some food for thought.....
 
Colinz said:
They are a bit like ZT, showing and announcing stuff that is never made and pricing their products like it is pre 2008.
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Nothing in this statement is true. What has ZT announced or shown and never made? And how are they pricing like it's pre-2008?

The WHOLE knife market is moving upmarket. The $100-175 segment is shrinking as consumers become more enraptured with the latest and greatest super steel, titanium frame locks, carbon fiber and bearing pivots.

If everyone decided they wanted to go back to g10, steel liner locks with s30v, 154cm blades, then prices would go back down to the $125ish level.
 
This whole thing gives me a headache. I know what the companies are doing (price fixing), and why(make their brand seem more than what it is). I can also understand their reasoning and what they hope to achieve.

Because we have been loyal customers and are members of their "secret clubs" (Order of Kai and Benchmaniacs) they took the leap into MAP enforcement gauging that the loss of pissed off consumers (like me) will be offset by new customers along with the the undying loyalists who passionately love their product (like Scurvy). Which is fine. They are trying to get the newbie knife knuts to see them to be as good as, or almost as good as a CRK or Strider they are alienating their base consumers by just assuming that we will gladly bend over and take it up the ass with a smile.

What I can't and WON'T do is go along with it, because there is a flaw in the plan. Neither company (especially Benchmade) has actually done anything from a manufacturing standpoint to match the QC and tolerancees of the companies they are trying to emulate. You can change the styling and jack up the the price on a KIA to make it SEEM like its on par or just under a Beemer. But if you don't completely redesign the car it's all just smoke and mirrors. By trying to get the newbie knife knuts to see them as almost as good as a CRK or Strider they are alienating their base consumers by just assuming that we will gladly bend over and take it up the ass with a smile. Well count me in amongst those who choose to keep their pants on and go elsewhere with my money. I'll see you in the Custom forums.
 
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Scurvy092 said:
The WHOLE knife market is moving upmarket.
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It certainly does seem that way. And yet my guess is that the lion's share of knife sales and revenues are in the <$100 segment. Part of the issue is that, as knifenuts, we tend to have a skewed vision of the market. We look at it as if everyone who buys a pocket knife thinks the way we do. I seriously doubt that's the case. And knives with g10, steel liner locks and s30v, 154cm blades are going to be around for a long, long time to come . . . especially as manufacturers like ZT and Benchmade price themselves out of the market with their greatest super steel, titanium frame lock, carbon fiber and bearing pivot offerings.
 
NorthernSouthpaw said:
This whole thing gives me a headache. I know what the companies are doing (price fixing), and why(make their brand seem more than what it is). I can also understand their reasoning and what they hope to achieve.

Because we have been loyal customers and are members of their "secret clubs" (Order of Kai and Benchmaniacs) they took the leap into MAP enforcement gauging that the loss of pissed off consumers (like me) will be offset by new customers along with the undying loyalists who passionately love their product (like Scurvy). Which is fine. They are trying to get the newbie knife knuts to see them to be as good as, or almost as good as a CRK or Strider they are alienating their base consumers by just assuming that we will gladly bend over and take it up the ass with a smile.

What I can't and WON'T do is go along with it, because there is a flaw in the plan. Neither company (especially Benchmade) has actually done anything from a manufacturing standpoint to match the QC and tolerances of the companies they are trying to emulate. You can change the styling and jack up the price on a KIA to make it SEEM like its on par or just under a Beemer. But if you don't completely redesign the car it's all just smoke and mirrors. By trying to get the newbie knife knuts to see them as almost as good as a CRK or Strider they are alienating their base consumers by just assuming that we will gladly bend over and take it up the ass with a smile. Well count me in amongst those who choose to keep their pants on and go elsewhere with my money. I'll see you in the Custom forums.
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I truly believe that the Benchmades and ZTs of this world are counting on the fact that people have short memories. If they keep dangling carrots in front of us, they hope that sooner or later we'll start nibbling on them and eventually, all will be forgiven. Only time will tell if they're right about that. But for the moment, at least, I'm not in a forgiving mood.
 
Yup. I had added to my cart on kershawguy.com thursday night an 0770CF for $145. I checked out Friday, went back later and looked, low and behold it was now $180.

With ZT, I think a lot of the companies were already selling at the MAP price, but were occasionally offer discounts on them. For example, BHQ--ZT0801 is still listed as $192.00, which is what it was listed at back in June when I bought one. But when I bought it, it was on sale for $165. Since the change, in one day, I noticed on BHQ that with ZT there were no longer any "log in to see the reduced price" notifications.

So it appears that with ZT, they are just not allowing their regular advertised prices to be discounted, but aren't actually raising the price of the knives like what Benchmade did. There in lies the difference. If this remains the case, then I will continue to buy ZT's. To me, the 0801 is definitely worth the $192. However, if ZT raises there prices like BM did, they will alienate me and many others.
 
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Congrats to everyone who was able to buy a new 0770CF for less than MAP. There are still some folks out there who are selling them at discounted prices. And they're not that hard to find. But I'd suggest you hurry before they too are forced to raise their prices.
 
bld522 said:
Congrats to everyone who was able to buy a new 0770CF for less than MAP. There are still some folks out there who are selling them at discounted prices. And they're not that hard to find. But I'd suggest you hurry before they too are forced to raise their prices.
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Knifeworks has them for $151.95
 
bld522 said:
It certainly does seem that way. And yet my guess is that the lion's share of knife sales and revenues are in the <$100 segment. Part of the issue is that, as knifenuts, we tend to have a skewed vision of the market. We look at it as if everyone who buys a pocket knife thinks the way we do. I seriously doubt that's the case. And knives with g10, steel liner locks and s30v, 154cm blades are going to be around for a long, long time to come . . . especially as manufacturers like ZT and Benchmade price themselves out of the market with their greatest super steel, titanium frame lock, carbon fiber and bearing pivot offerings.
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When I said the whole knife market, I meant the knife enthusiast market. Sub $50 knives are by far and away the vast majority of sales. I'm willing to be that Kershaw sells more Leeks in one year than ZT sells ALL of its models in one year.

ZT isn't pricing themselves out of the market, they are following the market. If people didn't want the latest and greatest materials, they wouldn't buy them and the companies would make more $100-$125 knives
 
RamZar said:
The SureFire analogy is an apt one. What's telling is that many of the high-tech flashlights are made in China by mostly Chinese companies. It won't be long before we see a lot more high-quality and innovative knives from Chinese companies. Consumers win again just like with the dizzying array of flashlights which just 6-7 years ago did not exist.
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I agree 100%. This trend of American companies enforcing MAP/UPP will give birth to smaller and more innovative companies in Asia. We are starting to see this with G.E. Chen's fixed blades and District 9. The average person looking to buy a quality knife will be inundated will more choices and 154cm with plastic handles for $100 will seem less and less attractive.
 
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