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Enforced ZT MAP, will you give Benchmade a second look?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by EDCanAdamas, Sep 20, 2014.

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  1. nwmetalbug

    nwmetalbug Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 10, 2012
    LOL pretty much what I was thinking!
     
  2. bld522

    bld522

    Feb 3, 2004
    True that. :) Guess I'll have to leave the ZT fight to the brick-heads. ;) :D
     
  3. nwmetalbug

    nwmetalbug Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 10, 2012
    At least you have a sense of humor :thumbup:
     
  4. bld522

    bld522

    Feb 3, 2004
    Life's too short not to have one! :D
     
  5. evltcat

    evltcat Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 7, 2011
    I got a ZT 0777CF for $170, would I pay $225 for it? Nope. :thumbdn:
    Will I look at BM again with a 25% price increase? Nope. Nothing all that appealing to me in their line. :thumbdn:
    Vote with your wallet folks... There are a LOT of us that buy a LOT of knives and BM & ZT will feel a pinch. Who else is the target audience that they continue to re-release the exact same knife with a different steel or handle material to? If they price them at MAP and enforce RPM (since it sounds like they are forcing a minimum sale price) that knifenuts won't pay, sales will fall.
     
  6. bld522

    bld522

    Feb 3, 2004
    And here's the flaw in the manufacturers' thinking. If a majority of us do, in fact, decide to boycott Benchmade and ZT, who will get hurt the worst and the quickest? Why the B&M shops the manufacturers' pricing policies are presumably designed to protect, of course. Their overhead will remain regardless of the loss of revenues our strategy will inflict on them. Meanwhile, internet retailers can simply circle their wagons and wait for the storm to pass or sell goods that aren't price-protected. Couple that with the misguided notion that B&M inventories are only there to be fondled, never purchased, and at the end of the day internet resellers may be the only ones that are left standing.

    To quote Robert Burns, the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
  7. salmonkiller

    salmonkiller

    Dec 9, 2006
    My opinion is that BM and ZT are enforcing both RPM and MAP simultaneously at all dealers.I have a Question.....What involvement do distributors like Monteng and Blue ridge Knives have in the decision to enforce RPM/MAP agreements/policies.I ponder if it is actually the distributors who apply pressure on BM and KAI for RPM/MAP enforcement???Sometimes I forget there is a middleman between the manufacturers and retailers that include both B&M and online retailers.Is it possible that the distributors are the ones that benefit from RPM/Map agreements more than both small and large dealers.Are distributor small margins being squeezed when retail prices are not on a constant fixed price point?I am just brainstorming some food for thought.....
     
  8. Scurvy092

    Scurvy092

    Jan 31, 2012
    Nothing in this statement is true. What has ZT announced or shown and never made? And how are they pricing like it's pre-2008?

    The WHOLE knife market is moving upmarket. The $100-175 segment is shrinking as consumers become more enraptured with the latest and greatest super steel, titanium frame locks, carbon fiber and bearing pivots.

    If everyone decided they wanted to go back to g10, steel liner locks with s30v, 154cm blades, then prices would go back down to the $125ish level.
     
  9. RevDevil

    RevDevil Super Evil Supermod Staff Member Super Mod

    Nov 9, 2009
    Nobody smack talk the 0350 or 0200. ;)
    They are good knives.
     
  10. NorthernSouthpaw

    NorthernSouthpaw

    Feb 27, 2014
    This whole thing gives me a headache. I know what the companies are doing (price fixing), and why(make their brand seem more than what it is). I can also understand their reasoning and what they hope to achieve.

    Because we have been loyal customers and are members of their "secret clubs" (Order of Kai and Benchmaniacs) they took the leap into MAP enforcement gauging that the loss of pissed off consumers (like me) will be offset by new customers along with the the undying loyalists who passionately love their product (like Scurvy). Which is fine. They are trying to get the newbie knife knuts to see them to be as good as, or almost as good as a CRK or Strider they are alienating their base consumers by just assuming that we will gladly bend over and take it up the ass with a smile.

    What I can't and WON'T do is go along with it, because there is a flaw in the plan. Neither company (especially Benchmade) has actually done anything from a manufacturing standpoint to match the QC and tolerancees of the companies they are trying to emulate. You can change the styling and jack up the the price on a KIA to make it SEEM like its on par or just under a Beemer. But if you don't completely redesign the car it's all just smoke and mirrors. By trying to get the newbie knife knuts to see them as almost as good as a CRK or Strider they are alienating their base consumers by just assuming that we will gladly bend over and take it up the ass with a smile. Well count me in amongst those who choose to keep their pants on and go elsewhere with my money. I'll see you in the Custom forums.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
  11. bld522

    bld522

    Feb 3, 2004
    It certainly does seem that way. And yet my guess is that the lion's share of knife sales and revenues are in the <$100 segment. Part of the issue is that, as knifenuts, we tend to have a skewed vision of the market. We look at it as if everyone who buys a pocket knife thinks the way we do. I seriously doubt that's the case. And knives with g10, steel liner locks and s30v, 154cm blades are going to be around for a long, long time to come . . . especially as manufacturers like ZT and Benchmade price themselves out of the market with their greatest super steel, titanium frame lock, carbon fiber and bearing pivot offerings.
     
  12. nwmetalbug

    nwmetalbug Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 10, 2012
    Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out
     
  13. nwmetalbug

    nwmetalbug Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 10, 2012
    Surprised this hasnt been closed yet its nothing but a bashing contest
     
  14. bld522

    bld522

    Feb 3, 2004
    I truly believe that the Benchmades and ZTs of this world are counting on the fact that people have short memories. If they keep dangling carrots in front of us, they hope that sooner or later we'll start nibbling on them and eventually, all will be forgiven. Only time will tell if they're right about that. But for the moment, at least, I'm not in a forgiving mood.
     
  15. K.O.D.

    K.O.D. The Everlasting Know-it-all Platinum Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Yup. I had added to my cart on kershawguy.com thursday night an 0770CF for $145. I checked out Friday, went back later and looked, low and behold it was now $180.

    With ZT, I think a lot of the companies were already selling at the MAP price, but were occasionally offer discounts on them. For example, BHQ--ZT0801 is still listed as $192.00, which is what it was listed at back in June when I bought one. But when I bought it, it was on sale for $165. Since the change, in one day, I noticed on BHQ that with ZT there were no longer any "log in to see the reduced price" notifications.

    So it appears that with ZT, they are just not allowing their regular advertised prices to be discounted, but aren't actually raising the price of the knives like what Benchmade did. There in lies the difference. If this remains the case, then I will continue to buy ZT's. To me, the 0801 is definitely worth the $192. However, if ZT raises there prices like BM did, they will alienate me and many others.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
  16. bld522

    bld522

    Feb 3, 2004
    Congrats to everyone who was able to buy a new 0770CF for less than MAP. There are still some folks out there who are selling them at discounted prices. And they're not that hard to find. But I'd suggest you hurry before they too are forced to raise their prices.
     
  17. K.O.D.

    K.O.D. The Everlasting Know-it-all Platinum Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Knifeworks has them for $151.95
     
  18. Scurvy092

    Scurvy092

    Jan 31, 2012
    When I said the whole knife market, I meant the knife enthusiast market. Sub $50 knives are by far and away the vast majority of sales. I'm willing to be that Kershaw sells more Leeks in one year than ZT sells ALL of its models in one year.

    ZT isn't pricing themselves out of the market, they are following the market. If people didn't want the latest and greatest materials, they wouldn't buy them and the companies would make more $100-$125 knives
     
  19. bld522

    bld522

    Feb 3, 2004
    Up to now I'd agree with you. Now I'm not so sure. Time will tell, of course.
     
  20. fq55

    fq55 Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 27, 1999

    I agree 100%. This trend of American companies enforcing MAP/UPP will give birth to smaller and more innovative companies in Asia. We are starting to see this with G.E. Chen's fixed blades and District 9. The average person looking to buy a quality knife will be inundated will more choices and 154cm with plastic handles for $100 will seem less and less attractive.
     
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