ESEE-3F Folder with Lion Steel is Canceled!

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Gianni is a great guy and he makes a damn nice folder, the only thing that bothers us is he waited until AFTER the SHOT show was over with to tell us he could no longer accept the terms and order we agreed on in our booth during SHOT. And those agreements cannot be denied because the meeting happened between Gianni, Mike, Shon Rowen and myself. We all shook hands and walked away happy with the deal. So, we told everyone it would be shipping in June (as Gianni told us in the meeting) and now we have to go back and tell them it's not going to happen. That's the frustrating part. We're seriously not trying to drag Gianni through the mud here because he's a great maker and seems to be a good guy but everyone on here was owed the truth about this since it has been talked about so much.
 
I don't look at it as dragging a man through the mud. I look at it as your responsibility. If you cannot take a man at his word and a handshake, those close to you should be made aware. We're all in the ESEE forum for a reason. Trust.
 
I'll take one! :D

I hadn't planned on buying the Lionsteel, since I already have few Spyderco and Benchmade folders, fwiw.
 
sorry for this, from what i can between the lines of gianni's mail it sounds that he is quite irritated by the foreign made comments made here AFTER the deal. other than letting you understand this he had no reason to emphasize on this point.

imho the guy is probably working with his guts more than you think. mediterranean ppl (i'm one, from corsica) can react pretty weirdly ... but i understand this. i run a restaurant, if i had some public people making an event at my place and saying loud on the net that if he could have made the event elsewhere he wouldn't have chose me ... hum i'm pretty sure that i would react just like him.


that being said i'm not in his mind, this is just a thought ... nothing agressive either ... don't get me wrong.
 
that sucks, hopefully you can get the rowen made folders up and running relatively soon.
 
The LS and stainless 4 are both great projects in the works and I am sure they will be very sucessful with sales. I know that I want one of each. The sun will still rise and set without the Italians. In the end, it will work out. I just hope that since Lion has all the specs that we don't see and Italian knock off appear in the market the looks and smells like an ESEE but doesn't have ESEE on the blade. I wish ESEE all the best as you move forward!!!
Cheers
Balding
 
I'm a little late to the party here, but I think it is fortunate this issue got flushed out before Jeff took a bunch a pre-orders then had to fend off all the wolves with a bunch of overseas excuses. Look at the HEST/F for crying out loud!

I would imagine that this will also make servicing warranty work a little more straightforward.
 
well thats just a shitty deal. seems like no one wins from this. but on the plus side, now the folder can be made in the good ole USA
 
Oh well, his loss is our gain. Hopefully you guys will be able to find a US company to make them and I will definitely buy one. Thanks for the update.
 
pwet said:
sorry for this, from what i can between the lines of gianni's mail it sounds that he is quite irritated by the foreign made comments made here AFTER the deal. other than letting you understand this he had no reason to emphasize on this point.

imho the guy is probably working with his guts more than you think. mediterranean ppl (i'm one, from corsica) can react pretty weirdly ... but i understand this. i run a restaurant, if i had some public people making an event at my place and saying loud on the net that if he could have made the event elsewhere he wouldn't have chose me ... hum i'm pretty sure that i would react just like him.


that being said i'm not in his mind, this is just a thought ... nothing agressive either ... don't get me wrong.
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Not taking your comments wrong at all. In fact they are appreciated because maybe Mike, Shon and I don't understand the culture. I really think Gianni is a good man, and I damn sure know he's a great knife maker. We really enjoyed our meeting with him and we all walked away happy with what we all decided about the ESEE-3 Folder. But to wake up this morning to this email was sort of like having the rug jerked out from under you ;) I read the email about 3 times because I was simply not believing what i was reading. Maybe Gianni doesn't understand our culture either. When we make a deal with someone then we stick to that deal until people start changing things that weren't in the original deal. The folder was going to be made in Italy. 2000 pieces on the first run and I'm sure a helluva lot more after that, but Gianni changed all that this morning. Again, we wish him the best.
 
spydusse said:
sickkk ill take both.... I just hope american made d2 can keep up with that GERMAN made d2... made in germany must be good hahaha
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What's your point?
pwet said:
sorry for this, from what i can between the lines of gianni's mail it sounds that he is quite irritated by the foreign made comments made here AFTER the deal. other than letting you understand this he had no reason to emphasize on this point.

imho the guy is probably working with his guts more than you think. mediterranean ppl (i'm one, from corsica) can react pretty weirdly ... but i understand this. i run a restaurant, if i had some public people making an event at my place and saying loud on the net that if he could have made the event elsewhere he wouldn't have chose me ... hum i'm pretty sure that i would react just like him.


that being said i'm not in his mind, this is just a thought ... nothing agressive either ... don't get me wrong.
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Don't know the circumstances but that was my first thought, too. Were there any negative comments about a non-USA made ESEE-3 folder? :confused:
 
Sorry to hear that, but you'll find someone else. You guys always pull trough
 
What horse shit.

It's disappointing enough, but even more disappointing that it happened to an honest, transparent and stand-up company like ESEE.

With that said, I have NO doubt that you guys will deliver an excellent folder.

To support you guys I just bought an ESEE6 and my first Junglas :)

You guys rule.
 
Hevy Devy said:
What's your point?

Don't know the circumstances but that was my first thought, too. Were there any negative comments about a non-USA made ESEE-3 folder? :confused:
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Yes, there were some negative comments from some (if I recall correctly) and even we were skeptical at first. But Mike and I worked honestly with Gianni and got the prototypes. We sat down with him at SHOT and went through every change we wanted and he noted them and said no problem. Even Shon Rowen was part of the meeting and Shon even commented when Gianni walked away that he was impressed with Gianni's work and that he would do a good job on the folder. That is a HUGE compliment coming from Shon since Shon is the most quality minded perfectionist I have ever met. So, Shon's "stamp of approval" on the project meant a helluva lot to Mike and I because we trust him completely when it comes to our business and knowing what is good. In short, we walked away from that meeting very proud to have Lion Steel making our folder and were in the Lion Steel camp. Then Gianni drops us. Go figure.
 
R.A.T. said:
Not taking your comments wrong at all. In fact they are appreciated because maybe Mike, Shon and I don't understand the culture. I really think Gianni is a good man, and I damn sure know he's a great knife maker. We really enjoyed our meeting with him and we all walked away happy with what we all decided about the ESEE-3 Folder. But to wake up this morning to this email was sort of like having the rug jerked out from under you ;) I read the email about 3 times because I was simply not believing what i was reading. Maybe Gianni doesn't understand our culture either. When we make a deal with someone then we stick to that deal until people start changing things that weren't in the original deal. The folder was going to be made in Italy. 2000 pieces on the first run and I'm sure a helluva lot more after that, but Gianni changed all that this morning. Again, we wish him the best.
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and you react to this in a great, polite and respectfull manner.

where i live a typical reaction to this kind of situation wouldn't include compliments to the guy. ;) cultural differences again.

and another option can still be a misunderstanding.
 
I can understand your gutted and that all your potential customers are even more so, but IMO this thread is very akin to dragging Gianni through the mud. I'd like to hear his side of the story too.

I cant believe that Lionsteel would have gotten so succesful if they backed out of deals every now and then. Thats something that destroys reputations and makes customers go away. Why start now?

Dont know, ive just been raised to always hear both sides of the story before drawing any conclusions.
 
R.A.T. said:
Yes, there were some negative comments from some (if I recall correctly) and even we were skeptical at first. But Mike and I worked honestly with Gianni and got the prototypes. We sat down with him at SHOT and went through every change we wanted and he noted them and said no problem. Even Shon Rowen was part of the meeting and Shon even commented when Gianni walked away that he was impressed with Gianni's work and that he would do a good job on the folder. That is a HUGE compliment coming from Shon since Shon is the most quality minded perfectionist I have ever met. So, Shon's "stamp of approval" on the project meant a helluva lot to Mike and I because we trust him completely when it comes to our business and knowing what is good. In short, we walked away from that meeting very proud to have Lion Steel making our folder and were in the Lion Steel camp. Then Gianni drops us. Go figure.
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Perhaps it was a misunderstanding but even though I can't unterstand or like Giannis behaviour. There are other ways to clarify such problems then dropping a deal. :(
pwet said:
and you react to this in a great, polite and respectfull manner.
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:thumbup:
 
pwet said:
and you react to this in a great, polite and respectfull manner.

where i live a typical reaction to this kind of situation wouldn't include compliments to the guy. ;) cultural differences again.

and another option can still be a misunderstanding.
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And guess what? We are indeed willing to chalk all of this up to a huge misunderstanding and cultural differences. Again, the main reason we wanted it public is so everyone that has been excited about this folder coming out in June would know the whole truth on why it's not happening. Again, this thread is not about trashing Gianni becasue it probably is nothing more than cultural differences. But the bottom line is the very reason we do not deal with products made in South America anymore is "cultural differences". If it is our money that is being spent then it will be our culture, specs, etc that will be adhered to. And that's not an elitist attidue at all. Bottom line is Mike and I are just not geared to deal with any culture that can't deal on a handshake or gets their feelings hurt too easily over some USA made comments. Shon Rowen and us have been working many, many years now and there have been many, many dollars exchanged between us and there has never once been the first piece of signed paper between us....and never will be. In fact, we just agreed to partner on a soft goods deal while we were at SHOT. Again, no papwerwork. Just our words as honorable men.
 
Oh, horse crap! I was so excited about the ESEE 3 folder! It's my belief that once the knife was released and people impressed ('cause I don't think ESEE would allow otherwise) that the knives would sell like crazy, despite the "Italy" markings. Well, I understand both sides of this predicament and hope that the ESEE 3 moves forward elsewhere (and fast)! Good luck to both ESEE and Gianni!
 
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