ESEE-3F Folder with Lion Steel is Canceled!

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joe- really ive been a little to busy to look into it. dont think i would do eseefan, just cause i might confuse people
 
Vege-Taco said:
Shaking someone's hand in greeting is not the same as shaking on a deal. If Jeff said he needed 4 weeks to deside whether to go ahead with an order you certainly can't expect LionSteel to sit idly by in the hopes that ESEE will make up their mind and commit to a contract. In my never-to-be-humble opinion, Jeff is a cast iron pot calling the stainless kettle black in this situation.
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From the way I am reading this, it seems only Gianni thought it was a greeting handshake. I believe Jeff said it was a sure agreement, he just wanted the time to see if any additional changes were going to be made to the folder.
 
Dammit...that really sucks. :( :thumbdn:

Hopefully it won't be too much longer before we see the Esee-3F anyway...
 
OK here is my 2 cents. I was a part of this meeting so I can speak first hand about it. During the meeting many changes to the design were discussed and agreed upon. Gianni made VERY detailed notes on each and every proposed change. Although they were all fairly minor changes, there were enough of them to potentially affect the price quite a bit. Additionally no firm decision had been made as to what blade steel to use. For these reasons a decision was made to wait 4 weeks before issuing a PO to allow LionSteel to get firm pricing figured out, allow us to put the protos through testing, and make a finial decision on the blade steel. Typically a PO is not issued until you have the pricing and design nailed down. I definitely walked away from the meeting with the firm understanding that Lion had agreed to produce 2000 pcs of the folder before the Blade show. Again, I found Gianni to be a very nice guy and he makes great knives, but in my opinion there is no doubt, a deal WAS in fact made. With all this said we are moving forward to produce the ESEE-3F. We look forward getting it in all of our great customers hands!

Shon Rowen
 
nutnfancyfan said:
joe- really ive been a little to busy to look into it. dont think i would do eseefan, just cause i might confuse people
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We talked to Spark about trying to get eseeratfan reinstated if he made a public apology to esav and to the forum. He really is a good guy but foolishly lost his temper. Spark said he wanted to let things just cool for a month or so and maybe revisit our request in a month or two.
 
You know Jeff I work in the homebuilding industry and as big as it is, it's a VERY small world where everyone knows everyone and MAJOR contacts are still to this day done on a handshake and a beer. From everything I've learned from you about the knife industry it sounds a lot like the came kind of "world". As dissapointed as I know you and all of us are right now, everything happens for a reason and this might be for the best in the long run. The word WILL GET OUT in the industry of what has transpired and will come back to bite him in the ass in the future in seeking new business. NEVER BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU. Business is always extremely cyclical and there will come a time when I'm sure he will be in need of new orders and something like this is not the thing you would want on your "resume". Rock on Shon, your the man for stepping up!!! The ESEE 3/F, MADE IN THE USA!!!:D
 
@rat- wait i must of missed something, what did he do to get kicked? i thought he like quit bladeforums or something like that
 
333rm:

Personally we don't want Gianni bit in the ass. We just want our folder made and thought we had a deal, but again I guess I was wrong. I will happily chalk it up to miscommunciation or anything else that makes it all palatable or comfortable because I want no hard feelings with him or anyone else in this industry. But I'm pretty sure Tony, Mike, Shon and probably others in our booth heard the same thing I thought I heard...but who knows. Like I said it doesn't matter anymore. As long as our custoemrs know what's going on with the folder, then we're cool with that. I learned a lot from Gianni's post here.
 
nutnfancyfan said:
@rat- wait i must of missed something, what did he do to get kicked? i thought he like quit bladeforums or something like that
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He got banned for being an asshole (he was being an asshole at the time). I think Esav banned him and rightfully so. All I'm saying is I think he deserves another chance if he were to apologize to the forum and Esav but that's not my call and we support the folks who make the rules here.
 
R.A.T. said:
It does make you wonder why this just all of a sudden re-surfaced, doesn't it? ;)
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Honestly, yes it does - and please know that this isn't meant to sound accusatory in any way towards any of the parties involved.
There's a thread over on the DPx site about their split with ESEE and as you saw there are quite a few pissed-off people over there insinuating that ESEE "backed out at the last moment", so that only adds to my confusion about a thread over here insinuating that LionSteel has done the same thing to you guys. I commend you for openly addressing your customers, and I hope my openness regarding my befuddlement will be equally appreciated. lol

Obviously I don't know the details about either agreement, but my first instinct regarding both pretty much trends towards "shit happens". I don't see any dishonesty or language barrier issues at play - rather, I see instances where opinions change once the euphoria of that initial excitement dies down and people look at the DETAILS. It's all smiles and handshakes and thrills when ideas are shooting back and forth, but when it comes time to really look at the nuts-and-bolts (no pun intended) reality sets in - especially at something as over-the-top as the SHOT show in Vegas?
I really try to stay out of the politics of it all - I just like and trust the product.
 
333rm said:
...As dissapointed as I know you and all of us are right now, everything happens for a reason and this might be for the best in the long run...
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X2. This has been my experience as well. Something better will probably come out of this.
 
peterj said:
Sounds like Gianni used to be in the Italian military; where it is common practice for things such as "ineffective combat operations" and "change sides".
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No personal attacks please . Miscommunication it seems and we shall all move forward in a positve manner over the ESEE3 Italian folder the never was
 
Rowen Mfg. said:
OK here is my 2 cents. I was a part of this meeting so I can speak first hand about it. During the meeting many changes to the design were discussed and agreed upon. Gianni made VERY detailed notes on each and every proposed change. Although they were all fairly minor changes, there were enough of them to potentially affect the price quite a bit. Additionally no firm decision had been made as to what blade steel to use. For these reasons a decision was made to wait 4 weeks before issuing a PO to allow LionSteel to get firm pricing figured out, allow us to put the protos through testing, and make a finial decision on the blade steel. Typically a PO is not issued until you have the pricing and design nailed down. I definitely walked away from the meeting with the firm understanding that Lion had agreed to produce 2000 pcs of the folder before the Blade show. Again, I found Gianni to be a very nice guy and he makes great knives, but in my opinion there is no doubt, a deal WAS in fact made. With all this said we are moving forward to produce the ESEE-3F. We look forward getting it in all of our great customers hands!

Shon Rowen
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Thanks for the input. I know this is going to be an impossible question to answer, but I have to ask it anyway: Do you have any idea when you will be able to start producing this folder? Late this year? Late next year? 2020?
 
I stand with what I said in my previous post but I am getting that strange tickle that feels like knife politics. I hope I am incorrect.
 
Jeff, Mike & Shon... My initial thought when I started reading this thread was that in the end, it will work out for the best. None of you guys are quitters & you have a sense of purpose. As a dealer, you have my full support & confidence. Let's carry on!

By the way... I'm standing by ready to order a bunch!
 
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