ESEE-3F Folder with Lion Steel is Canceled!

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Alfaholic said:
Unacceptable.
To waste your precious time and effort at SHOT when you could have been negotiating with others is unacceptable and disgusting business practice.:thumbdn:

He should be ashamed of himself. He will never see a Dollar of my money.

The ESEE-3F is a winner Jeff. I hope you find another reputable US manufacturer to make it.
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I hear you, but reading Gianni's message it looks like this is more a miscommunication than anything else. Each culture is loaded with stuff that is "just understood" by everyone who grew up in that culture. Not meaning to slight Gianni at all (I don't know *any* Italian) but English is not his first language. He is probably an upstanding guy when communication is clear and completely understood; LionSteel has a great reputation. I think he and Jeff just didn't understand each other as clearly as they thought they did. As far as I can tell they're both great guys, upstanding businessmen in their own countries, they just don't speak the same language at the same level of understanding. This is sad.
 
R.A.T. said:
Most companies simply refuse to do business with us as a vendor. We're assholes, plain and simple, when it comes to quality and forcing the vendor to deliver on time and do what they say they will do. Vendors don't last with us because they don't like to be called out. We simply expect every company to do work the same way Rowen does, nothing more.
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It's pretty easy to beat up on the Chinese because they are making so much absolute garbage these days. But the unspoken thing about it is, companies like Wal-Mart, which carries a lot of that garbage, if they simply said to the Chinese, "We want higher quality," they could get it. There is also great stuff being made that is made in China. I wish it was made here, but, wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one gets filled the fastest...as my Dad used to say. :D

I tried to use an Allen Wrench today at work, cheap Chinese shit my boss purchased. It was not tempered properly and it just rounded the end off of the thing. This stuff is everywhere, so, good for you that you demand high quality and have integrity.
 
R.A.T. said:
333rm:

Personally we don't want Gianni bit in the ass. We just want our folder made and thought we had a deal, but again I guess I was wrong. I will happily chalk it up to miscommunciation or anything else that makes it all palatable or comfortable because I want no hard feelings with him or anyone else in this industry. But I'm pretty sure Tony, Mike, Shon and probably others in our booth heard the same thing I thought I heard...but who knows. Like I said it doesn't matter anymore. As long as our custoemrs know what's going on with the folder, then we're cool with that. I learned a lot from Gianni's post here.
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NO, I totally understand that Jeff. I'm sorry if that came out in that manner, it wasn't at all in how I intended it. Just that I always have done business on a handshake as you, and without my word I'd lose a lot. They make some GREAT knives no doubt! But it's sad to see such a great company lose out on a great project due to miscommunication. When people other than the key ones involved learn about it with less than all the facts it can be hard to explain to them. We all wish them the best of luck in the future!!!
 
Don Rearic said:
...if they simply said to the Chinese, "We want higher quality," they could get it. There is also great stuff being made that is made in China...
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A topic for another forum, but you're exactly right. My brother-in-law has done some business with Chinese factories and was blown away by what they could do and what the American businessman asked them to do instead. ;)

But like I said, wrong forum. :)
 
Don Rearic said:
It's pretty easy to beat up on the Chinese because they are making so much absolute garbage these days. But the unspoken thing about it is, companies like Wal-Mart, which carries a lot of that garbage, if they simply said to the Chinese, "We want higher quality," they could get it. There is also great stuff being made that is made in China. I wish it was made here, but, wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one gets filled the fastest...as my Dad used to say. :D

I tried to use an Allen Wrench today at work, cheap Chinese shit my boss purchased. It was not tempered properly and it just rounded the end off of the thing. This stuff is everywhere, so, good for you that you demand high quality and have integrity.
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Don, you and I both peak out at about the same amount of assholism in most things. It's not just quality that is an issue with me. Another thing that brings out the asshole in me is delivery times, or lying about delivery delays. We fought with the Colombians for 6 months AFTER the product was suppose to be finished to even get them to ship it. It's been the same with every overseas company we have worked with. Rowen is the only company (besides a few other American companies we deal with) that actually ships on time and at least tells you the truth when they're behind. I don't know how many soft goods companies that Mike has just straight-up fired. Being an asshole runs you out of options real quick in this market, but being an asshole means the customers gets what they pay for.
 
Vege-Taco said:
Until a contract is signed there is no deal, only discussion.
Shawn
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I skimmed the whole 10 pages, for some reason I caught this. But I call BullShit! When you shake a mans hand, that is your word. You only have two things in life your word and name, if your word is no good, neither is your name! (that is not directed at lionsteel, but a general statement). If you need a contract written up to do bussines with somebody, you need to find someone else to do bussines with. I am so damned sick of people saying they will do or follow through with something and then not.
 
R.A.T. said:
Don, you and I both peak out at about the same amount of assholism in most things. It's not just quality that is an issue with me. Another thing that brings out the asshole in me is delivery times, or lying about delivery delays. We fought with the Colombians for 6 months AFTER the product was suppose to be finished to even get them to ship it. It's been the same with every overseas company we have worked with. Rowen is the only company (besides a few other American companies we deal with) that actually ships on time and at least tells you the truth when they're behind. I don't know how many soft goods companies that Mike has just straight-up fired. Being an asshole runs you out of options real quick in this market, but being an asshole means the customers gets what they pay for.
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Thank you for doing that for us, Jeff.

You might be an asshole, but your our asshole! ;)
 
Rich Lucibella, publisher of SWAT Magazine and one of the most honorable men I have had the pleasure of calling a great friend told me that same thing one time. He said, "You're an asshole but you're our asshole"

I make no bones about it. I'm pasionate about what we do and I will indeed rain on someone's parade if it's our money and our customers they're playing with. After I'm through cussing and warping on their head, I'll buy them a beer.
 
When the ESEE-3 Folder is finally done, I want pics and a video of it being battoned through a Lionsteel made knife!!

;)
 
tonym said:
When the ESEE-3 Folder is finally done, I want pics and a video of it being battoned through a Lionsteel made knife!!

;)
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Will you settle for it being thrown at a Lion Steel knife? :D
 
R.A.T. said:
Rich Lucibella, publisher of SWAT Magazine and one of the most honorable men I have had the pleasure of calling a great friend told me that same thing one time. He said, "You're an asshole but you're our asshole"

I make no bones about it. I'm pasionate about what we do and I will indeed rain on someone's parade if it's our money and our customers they're playing with. After I'm through cussing and warping on their head, I'll buy them a beer.
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This is why I'm not a good businessman, I'm a technician. You need to be able to bust a few balls to get things done right. Thank you for being a ball-buster when you've had to be. :)
 
Hell Joe, I'm a terrible business man. Mike is too. We just run our business how we would expect others to run theirs if we were their customer. Nothing more. None of this secret college-boy marketing or psychological techniques. We don't play by any "rules" or even someone's version of "ethics" of the industry or business. We play just like we're the guy walking in the hunting store wanting to buy a knife. That's all we know. As I have said before, I live in a double wide trailer and Mike lives in a shanty little house. We're happy and don't want anything better. We do this shit becasue it's fun and we don't have to go punch a clock every day somewhere. Screw with us and we will screw back. Leave us be and we will bend over backwards to help you. Sadly, some folks just don't understand this concept.
 
R.A.T. said:
Don, you and I both peak out at about the same amount of assholism in most things. It's not just quality that is an issue with me. Another thing that brings out the asshole in me is delivery times, or lying about delivery delays. We fought with the Colombians for 6 months AFTER the product was suppose to be finished to even get them to ship it. It's been the same with every overseas company we have worked with.
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Correct, anyone can suffer a delay, be it from unexpected toe cancer to steel shipments or Chicago screw shipments being late, WHATEVER! But some people, instead of just explaining that, they seem to think it's better to just bullshit and lie about it.
 
Don Rearic said:
Correct, anyone can suffer a delay, be it from unexpected toe cancer to steel shipments or Chicago screw shipments being late, WHATEVER! But some people, instead of just explaining that, they seem to think it's better to just bullshit and lie about it.
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Or blame it on the Republicans!
 
R.A.T. said:
We don't play by any "rules" or even someone's version of "ethics" of the industry or business. We play just like we're the guy walking in the hunting store wanting to buy a knife. That's all we know.
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Well, I'm going to say something that surely someone in the knife industry would be honked off about if they read it...but...maybe that's why ESEE Knives are so good.

I watched a guy that had only been making knives for a short, few years not only talking down to someone that was making knives before they were born, but basically telling the guy how to make a knife...and the youngster knew who he was talking to, too.

As I have said before, I live in a double wide trailer and Mike lives in a shanty little house. We're happy and don't want anything better.
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Well, if you're both in the country, I know you are, what could be "better?"
 
Rowen Mfg. said:
With all this said we are moving forward to produce the ESEE-3F. We look forward getting it in all of our great customers hands!

Shon Rowen
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A bold new project for a winning team! All's well that ends well and the folder will certainly be excellent.
 
"ESEE Knives - Soon to be featuring Rearden Metal..."

Is there an ESEE CHOO-CHOO TRAIN in the works or what? You layin' down the tracks? :D
 
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