Fading popularity of traditional knives

[davek14]

A traditional knife for me is a pocket razor to carry after work. It's "nice" looking and works best for stuff I do after work. I can put an edge on it I have to warn people about before I let them use it.

In my line of work I use a knife all day, but occasionally not constantly. I also have various stuff handy to touch up. I use a modern a lot when working but I'd rather have an expendable knife than a more expensive, better one. "You'll lose an expensive knife the first day you use it, but you can throw a cheap knife out your car window and it will be on your dresser when you get home." I like 12c27 a whole lot, but end up with 8cr13mov more than I'd like. If I used a knife extensively in a day I would want a super steel. It's just different horses for different courses, the right tool for the job.

My sig is "de gustibus non est disputandum". In matters of taste there can be no disputes.

 

[Bugdoc]

Love this discussion. Lots of opinions on both sides, but without data they're just that, opinions. Question is, who will do the study? This could actually be a great doctoral dissertation. (Yup, if you guessed I'm one of those from my handle you'd be right.)

It's funny that it was a giveaway "Rockwell" flipper that came with a cigar shipment that got me interested in knives, yet I quickly gravitated to traditional fixed blades and folders. I prefer SS, not the latest/ greatest, just a good one like CM-154. (For a humorous review of a 'cheap' steel however watch this : Rosta-Frei Steel is #1!)

That said I usually start on BF with the New Posts list to see what's going on everywhere. For me it's much more interesting than sticking with those few threads you're comfortable with. I guess that makes me 'open-minded'.

RE protection, I fortunately do not find myself in places where that's needed but if I did I'd legally carry a sidearm.

RE fixed traditionals I carry smaller Bird & Trout knives or a Helle when I can. But I was impressed with the Ka-bar Field/ Utility (aka the F/U knife ). This is a nice level-headed review of one : Dog's Head Utility-The First Thirty Days

Cheers!

 

[Wurrwulf]

I'm glad you enjoy your steel of choice.
Do you think having a choice of better steels in a traditional is a bad thing?

Absolutely not! Choices in steel are fantastic, but I don't think it's necessary for traditional knife makers to get into the rat race of producing in the newest, latest and greatest super steel in order remain relevant or survive. The fixed blades that I own in AEB-L, CPM154, VG-10, and N690 are wonderful, and I don't find them difficult to sharpen at all.

By saying things like: "I expect more from a blade than patina, that makes it look like the knife worked. I expect the knife to work," you are implying that the "traditional" way doesn't work, which is false. It works fine, just not in the way you would prefer. I, personally, prefer Case or GEC make the same knife in 15 different covers than make the same knife in 15 different steels like Spyderco does. Different strokes and all that.

 

[Dean51]

Absolutely not! Choices in steel are fantastic, but I don't think it's necessary for traditional knife makers to get into the rat race of producing in the newest, latest and greatest super steel in order remain relevant or survive. The fixed blades that I own in AEB-L, CPM154, VG-10, and N690 are wonderful, and I don't find them difficult to sharpen at all.

By saying things like: "I expect more from a blade than patina, that makes it look like the knife worked. I expect the knife to work," you are implying that the "traditional" way doesn't work, which is false. It works fine, just not in the way you would prefer. I, personally, prefer Case or GEC make the same knife in 15 different covers than make the same knife in 15 different steels like Spyderco does. Different strokes and all that.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the"traditional" way doesn't work"
I'm talking about steel. I have 4 modern and 6 modern traditionals and way more traditionals.
Mostly Queen, CSC and a few GEC.
I never said there should be a traditional steel rat race, just something better than the traditional 420hc, 440a and CV.
Those old steels don't work for me, I'm glad they work for you.
Your examples of CPM154, VG-10, and N690 would be perfect. I believe a steel upgrade and options would breath new life into traditionals.
.

 

[ndmiller]

Carry my 15 Beer Scout daily and love it, but new to Traditionals in the last 3 years. Grabbed a Mudbug, some FF 71's and a Lionsteel DOM, along with a BF Barlow last year and this years version.

Have a list of more I want, but can't get them, demand is just nuts. New releases are all but impossible to get and seem like WAY more catch and release for profit on Traditionals versus other folders. Not paying double on BF within hours of release of GEC website exclusives. Tried the waiting for pre-order GEC exclusives stalking 1/2 dozen websites 2-3 times a day, but all already closed when I get there. Just exhausting and annoying, not worth any more effort. When more beer scouts get released, I'l take a crack at getting one, but done for now.

 

[hhmoore]

My only issue with my traditional knives is when I thought I could get by with one blade, it didn’t work out well.

I'm in the opposite camp - I find that I really have no use for multiple blades on a knife. I didn't when I did farmwork as a child/teen, and I don't in my adult life. I can tolerate two blades (on opposite ends, only!)...but I pretty much decide which one I like on the knife and only open/use that one. Different strokes, that's why they don't just make one style of knife.

(honestly, there is a 2 blade combination I would probably appreciate and use; but I don't think I've ever seen it.)

 

[CVamberbonehead]

So, I just saw that Case is releasing some new stuff. Im a little behind the times I guess, but they are putting out assisted knives and in the fixed blade arena they are making black tactical "operator" style knives.
The fixed blades actually have a cool story behind them (I saw a you tube video of Case at SHOT show) but they just dont interest me. They look like something TOPS would make called the Steel Whale or something.
The point here though, is that if Case, the biggest name in traditional knives, is putting out their new tactical grandpa series (TacPappy?) then there must be some real pressure to change! It would seem the modern tactical market is putting the squeeze on Case's wallet.

 

[mfunnell]

So, I just saw that Case is releasing some new stuff. Im a little behind the times I guess, but they are putting out assisted knives and in the fixed blade arena they are making black tactical "operator" style knives.
The fixed blades actually have a cool story behind them (I saw a you tube video of Case at SHOT show) but they just dont interest me. They look like something TOPS would make called the Steel Whale or something.
The point here though, is that if Case, the biggest name in traditional knives, is putting out their new tactical grandpa series (TacPappy?) then there must be some real pressure to change! It would seem the modern tactical market is putting the squeeze on Case's wallet.

Hey, if it keeps the doors open, I'm all for it. I don't have to buy the knives I don't like, as long as they're selling enough that they keep making ones I do. And if it inclines Case towards working with some better grades of stainless then that would be a bonus.

...Mike

 

[CVamberbonehead]

Hey, if it keeps the doors open, I'm all for it. I don't have to buy the knives I don't like, as long as they're selling enough that they keep making ones I do. And if it inclines Case towards working with some better grades of stainless then that would be a bonus.

...Mike

I feel the same. I dont like it personally, but someone must. But if theyre gonna update anything, they should offer 154 cm on their knives. Right now they have CV for workers and tru sharp for collectors, and I would like a stainless that doesnt suck so much for a worker.

I used to carry a CV yellow trapper alot(among others, a sodbuster jr is another favorite work knife of mine) when I worked on the family farm, and I always had to be careful in the summer because no matter how well you take of it that CV steel can rust in a hurry at the bottom of my sweaty pocket (espcially in the humidity where I live). The alternative though, tru sharp, is not good enough for hard jobs like that. It is decent steel, but dulls quickly and doesnt sharpen as well as CV.

I would have loved to get their 154 cm in my trapper. I dont have the money for a Tony Bone Case knife with 154 cm, but if it was offered as a standard knife upgrade I would pay more for it.

 

[solphilos]

I'm personally quite excited to see Case adding some modern touches to traditional patterns and wish others would do the same. While I'm a huge fan of traditionals in their purest form, sometimes I desire the extra functionality of one hand opening and a pocket clip. I don't feel that traditional patterns need improvement, but would like some more options.
The problem is, if you want those you have to go all the way to the other side of the spectrum and end up with something like a Benchmade or Spyderco. Not that that's a bad thing, but not always what I'm after.

Why is there so little middle ground here?
It seems that most knife people lean either hard left or hard right; you'll have those that feel that what has worked for the past hundred years ago is good enough and needs no improvement, and those that think that slipjoints are outdated and obsolete.

Personally, I'd love to see more slipjoints with some form of one hand opening and a clip, but retaining all the other things I love so much about these knives; natural covers, bolsters, etc.

 

[jc57]

Why is there so little middle ground here?

There's plenty of middle ground. What you are seeing is an artifact of how the rules are set up here for what is discussed in this particular subforum. The rules are fine - if you didn't have a set of rules then it would just be General Knife Discussion for everything.

It just means that you don't see a lot of discussion of those middle ground knives. They are not allowed here, and they are a small component of the overall knife spectrum and so they get lost in the shuffle in the General Knife forum. Example - Case Trapperlock. Looks like a Trapper, certainly visually appealing in the same way as a regular trapper is, but has a thumbstud and a detent-based liner lock with no backspring, and some models have pocket clips. So, not suitable for discussion here in this one subforum.

Buck has a separate forum, where there is no distinction between discussing traditional or modern Buck knives. If Case had a subforum here, there would probably be no such lines there. Instead, you'd have lines based on manufacturer.

So here, you only get to see "traditional knife jc57" and don't get to meet "Benchmade/Spyderco/ZT owner jc57" or "kitchen knife jc57" because those guys have to live in different subforums. There are plenty of "middle grounders" here.

 

[22-rimfire]

There's plenty of middle ground. What you are seeing is an artifact of how the rules are set up here for what is discussed in this particular subforum. The rules are fine - if you didn't have a set of rules then it would just be General Knife Discussion for everything.

This is true and the number of middle ground knives are increasing significantly because there is a demand from folks like us that like traditional knives, but understand the convenience of some of the modern features. They also serve to nudge modern knife enthusiasts toward traditional knives discussed in this forum or serve as more of a gentleman's knife.

 

[Horsewright]

Holy cow! Ten pages of this already. Let me read up and I'll be back.

 

[Bugdoc]

If moderns sales help support traditionals I'm all for Case doing it.

I agree the Case SS is mediocre, but they could go a long ways by just improving the HT of their SS which is 420hc. (Look at Buck's 420hc+Bos HT, much better as an EDC.)

You can get a nice used Case/ Bose Backpocket in 154 cm for not too much money BTW.

 

[22-rimfire]

Part of the problem in the Traditional Forum is that after 10+ years on Blade Forums, I still don't really know the limits of acceptable knives that might be posted or discussed here.

 

[jec88]

I don't think of it as traditional vs. modern. I just think of a modern knife as basically a different pattern. I prefer a traditional pattern to the modern pattern (for nostalgia, and they still are as useful as when they first came out) but i do own both. I know of young guys that carry traditional and older guys in their 70s that carry modern because they can't open the knives they used to own. I see both sides, if I wanted an original 1957 chevy i wouldn't expect it to have air conditioning, but if I bought one of the new modern muscle car reboots, I'd want and expect air and all of the bells and whistles. I see upgrades in steel as just a progression of things just like a pocket clip or thumbstud. I don't think anyone is right or wrong they all have place, but to fit into the context of a traditional forum, I understand they have guidlines so that everyone is on the same page as to what is traditional. But I'm sitting in the AC, cold even though it is about 95 outside and on a computer /internet so I can't bash anyone for carrying a modern knife. I like them all.

 

[solphilos]

There's plenty of middle ground. What you are seeing is an artifact of how the rules are set up here for what is discussed in this particular subforum. The rules are fine - if you didn't have a set of rules then it would just be General Knife Discussion for everything.

It just means that you don't see a lot of discussion of those middle ground knives. They are not allowed here, and they are a small component of the overall knife spectrum and so they get lost in the shuffle in the General Knife forum. Example - Case Trapperlock. Looks like a Trapper, certainly visually appealing in the same way as a regular trapper is, but has a thumbstud and a detent-based liner lock with no backspring, and some models have pocket clips. So, not suitable for discussion here in this one subforum.

Buck has a separate forum, where there is no distinction between discussing traditional or modern Buck knives. If Case had a subforum here, there would probably be no such lines there. Instead, you'd have lines based on manufacturer.

So here, you only get to see "traditional knife jc57" and don't get to meet "Benchmade/Spyderco/ZT owner jc57" or "kitchen knife jc57" because those guys have to live in different subforums. There are plenty of "middle grounders" here.

I suppose what I was asking is why aren't we seeing more traditional patterns with these modern features? I know there are plenty of folks like myself that enjoy both modern and traditional styles and carry both, but is there not a market for a 'hybrid' knife, if you will?
I know Case has done this to a very small extent, but it seems that the market strongly leans in either direction but not in the middle. Or maybe there are plenty of these knives out there and I'm just not seeing them as you suggested.

 

[solphilos]

Part of the problem in the Traditional Forum is that after 10+ years on Blade Forums, I still don't really know the limits of acceptable knives that might be posted or discussed here.

As a rule of thumb I just try to imagine if my great grandfather would pick it up and use it without a second thought. If he were to say "wtf is this?" I'll probably think twice

 

[Danke42]

I suppose what I was asking is why aren't we seeing more traditional patterns with these modern features? I know there are plenty of folks like myself that enjoy both modern and traditional styles and carry both, but is there not a market for a 'hybrid' knife, if you will?
I know Case has done this to a very small extent, but it seems that the market strongly leans in either direction but not in the middle. Or maybe there are plenty of these knives out there and I'm just not seeing them as you suggested.

I think they're coming. Just need a bit more patience.

Thinking about this a bit more last night I reflected that I really like "Traditional" knives and I really like "Modern" knives but what I don't like is "Transitional" knives; that murky period in the 70-80s where the change took place. Those are really meh to me.

 

[Astronaut FX]

As a rule of thumb I just try to imagine if my great grandfather would pick it up and use it without a second thought. If he were to say "wtf is this?" I'll probably think twice

As it relates specifically to patterns, I think that’s a fair barometer. At the same time, be careful of that line of thinking and what it reveals to us.

If either of my great grandfathers (or grandfathers for that matter) were still around, and they overheard us talking about drawers full of knives, or chasing down SFOs like they were Beanie Babies, or buying brand new knives with phony aging, or even some of the prices we pay, or spending time online talking with strangers about knives, we’d likely get more than a WTF. Those old timers would have done none of that.

We may love the traditional patterns, but for some of us, I think our buying habits and how we “use” or knives may have veered off the “traditional” path long ago.

And that’s completely, absolutely 100% OK. Times change. How we spend our time and our money is our business. We may have more of both than our predecessors. It’s just a way of framing the fact that we all like what we like, and there’s likely someone who doesn’t “get” it, and we may not “get” what they like. Celebrate the common ground, and accept where we’re different.