Fading popularity of traditional knives

kamagong said:
Depends on the knife I suppose. Even with a cocked and loaded 1911 already in my hand, I would still hate to face someone carrying a proper bowie.
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It was no accident of fate that after Samuel Colt's revolver came onto wide spread use, the Bowie knife, Arkansas toothpick, and the rest of the like had a very drastic downturn in popularity. In the post Civil War era, the Bowie almost disappeared.
 
Wowbagger said:
Are we sure ?
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Yes, we're sure.

jackknife said:
It was no accident of fate that after Samuel Colt's revolver came onto wide spread use, the Bowie knife, Arkansas toothpick, and the rest of the like had a very drastic downturn in popularity. In the post Civil War era, the Bowie almost disappeared.
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I never said a knife is my first choice. It's folly when there are "better" tools available. But it's equally foolish to dismiss them altogether. Just a few years ago a man in Honduras took out four cops with a machete. They had AKs. Watching the video immediately brought to mind the old stories of Moros who could take out a half-dozen soldiers with their barongs and krises before they were stopped.

Our biology hasn't change despite the advent of the gunpowder age. Cold steel remains as effective as ever. And I think it is important to note, it is possibly the best option in many locales and situations where civilian access to firearms is severely restricted or nonexistent altogether.
 
I don't have anything against modern knives, I used to have a bunch of them and still have a few left. You'll never see me bad mouth those knives, although the Mall Ninjas get a smirk now and again. I can also appreciate the high-tech super steels, I was a steel snob for a short time until I realized it didn't make as much difference as I was hoping. But the part that I can't wrap my head around is this need for traditionals to start using modern materials and features. When I grab my traditional knives it's because they evoke a certain charm and stir feelings that hearken back to my childhood. If I'm being honest, a modern, high-tech knife can be very handy and it won't scare people because I'm pretty discreet with them. So if it's convenience and high quality steel i want, I'll just grab a modern knife. Seems logical to me, right?. But that's not what I want any more, so traditionals do all the Totin' and cuttin' and they have never left me wanting for more. Now if I wanted to blend the two and have a traditional with a super steel, I'd search 'em out or pay to have one made (easy). I would never expect Case or GEC or any of the others to change their practices to suit my needs, there are other options out there. It is obvious that those companies are doing quite well and there are enough buyers that are satisfied with the products they produce.

Full disclosure: I just bought a Case Trapperlock so I can see if I'm wrong about everything I just said. If you didn't already know, the Trapperlock is a single blade Trapper with a pocket clip and a thumb stud. Still Case CV though :)
 
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FarmKid said:
I’ve noticed that knives are a regional thing. I can honestly say here in the middle southern Appalachian mountains that case is king. I’ve also that certain lifestyles dictate knife choices. Most city people carry a modern type knife. Not always, but most town people I see are carrying a knife with a clip. The further you get away from town you rarely see someone with a clip snagged on a pocket. The only exceptions are horse people and their Spydercos or people who live in the country that work in town. I know a case medium stockman must be the cool thing for the young country kids now because everyone of them carries them. A yellow cv trapper is big with hunters and the reclusive mountain people. I’ve even seen a decline of utility knives on construction sites here lately! So things are looking up here!
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I am in the Ozark Mountains and almost exactly the same thing. Trappers never went away, but really seem to be making a huge comeback, especially the yellow ones. Only difference is that most of the stockman I see are the old USA Old Timers. I never see an old Timer trapper carried, but the Old Timer stockman has a huge following. I know of an old store that buys them up and cleans them up and re sells them in a little plastic tube and they are all around a $100 and he sells alot of them. I don't see as many Buck 110's as I used to, everyone seems to be carrying a trapper in a nice sheath.
 
To assume trends based off of a marketing video for a modern knife store is like believing Ford makes the best pickup based off of one commercial. I'm surprised this thread has gone to 12 pages! (yet here i am posting too).
 
Most of my rural relatives, farmers and cattlemen, carry yellow CV Case trappers, the 4⅛" 54 pattern. Usually the spey blade is caked with junk, as they use it for a scraper and digger, while the clip is cleaner and much, much sharper, as it's used for cutting. It must still meet their needs, or they wouldn't carry 'em.
Around town I rarely see anyone with a knife that isn't a modern OHO. At my usual haunts I always take out and explain/show-off my traditionals to spread the good word, but so far I haven't noticed anyone switching away from their Spydercos or Benchmades.
 
Hard to speak for general public sales but within the hobby I don't think traditional knives are fading. I see more and more people carrying slip joints. The guys in the blade hq video just happen to be modern folder guys but that is hardly representative. They did make a video a while back talking about traditional knives as well.
 
black mamba said:
Most of my rural relatives, farmers and cattlemen, carry yellow CV Case trappers, the 4⅛" 54 pattern. Usually the spey blade is caked with junk, as they use it for a scraper and digger, while the clip is cleaner and much, much sharper, as it's used for cutting. It must still meet their needs, or they wouldn't carry 'em.
Around town I rarely see anyone with a knife that isn't a modern OHO. At my usual haunts I always take out and explain/show-off my traditionals to spread the good word, but so far I haven't noticed anyone switching away from their Spydercos or Benchmades.
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So where to Vic SAKs fit into this pattern or observation? Only city folks carried them? I carried a Case jack knife most of my early years (Barlow initially and later simply a two blade jack knife about the same size) until I tried out my first Vic SAK (Tinker model) in the early 80's. I'd show that SAK to my Dad and he would just smile. But not really comment. I suspect he viewed them along the same line of your experience where traditional Case or Schrade knives ruled the roost. His regular carry changed from Case to Schrade to Buck, but all modest sized traditional knives. I doubt he really put much thought into the knife brand other than it was one he respected. If he needed a new knife, he bought one at the hardware store.
 
Wowbagger said:
Sorry . . I've been away from this thread for a few days and catching up. Lots of action in here !
OH mannnnnnn . . . don't get me started on GEC. Silly rabbits.

Let me talk generally about traditionals and 1095 (which I like).
People talk about "Sheeple" or people who get all scared and say silly things when they see a knife. Almost any knife.
It seems some how that when it comes to 1095 in a Traditional the knife makers kind of do a similar silly thing . . . they loose all their brains and under harden it so that oh my gosh, nothing bad happens to any stupid first time knife buyer like the blade might get a little chip in it if used by a monkey or it might be hard to sharpen on Grand Dad's old glazed hard ark.

I mean 1095 's OK but harden that sheeeeet up !
If you don't know how to make a plain high carbon with some hardness spend some time in Japan for cripe sakes.

Here this is a traditional right ? Old school stuff.
Plain high carbon 1095ish White Paper steel. BUT good and hard.
yeah . . . if I could get a traditional with some hard, hard in it like this "Little Monster"
I would be half way happy anyway.
View attachment 971174

From what I have seen here over the years the GEC plain high carbon won't be significantly different than the Case CV in this photo; bottom knife.
Or the Boker plain high carbon in the next photo. Note the Spay is gone off the Boker. Soooo much better that way ! Beautiful scales; mostly black with a hint of very dark but vibrant green. I love this knife. Wish it were M4.
View attachment 971176

PS: this is an old photo when the knife was new. Has more patina now.
View attachment 971177
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GEC 1095 is 1095 and it is what it is.
It can never be anything like M4.
I like modern powdersteels and I use them (but not M4).

When it comes to GEC 1095, I'm pleasantly surprised by their good heat-treatment regime.
Like many here I give the blade my own edge and this makes it stay sharp long enough for my needs in a pocketknife.

As You insist on M4 in a traditional pocketknife, a custom knifemaker seems to be the right way to go.
 
Wowbagger said:
Sorry . . I've been away from this thread for a few days and catching up. Lots of action in here !
OH mannnnnnn . . . don't get me started on GEC. Silly rabbits.

I mean 1095 's OK but harden that sheeeeet up !

From what I have seen here over the years the GEC plain high carbon won't be significantly different than the Case CV in this photo; bottom knife.
Or the Boker plain high carbon in the next photo.
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GEC's 1095 is heat treated and cryo tempered by Peters HT to 58-59 HRc
Case's CV is is a modified 1085, .86 carbon, heat treated to 55 HRc
There's a difference :rolleyes:
 
I wrote off case about 40 years ago because of their steel but I was looking at their site earlier and found a few new to me offerings. Some Chinese OHO imports with unnamed 440 and AUS-8. As usual no mention of heat treat. Sad. :( I would like to see Case succeed but I don't believe that is the way to go.
They kind of reminded me of Old Timer when they tried to appeal to the modern market, back around 2000.
I hope the mods leave the pic for the sake of discussion, if not I'll apologize in advance and remove them.
OT 53OTG and 47OT
ivPvdxM.jpg

2maGQUO.jpg
 
I think for most of us a traditional knife is near and dear to our hearts. Brings back fond memories and for most of us we dreamed of being like our dads,granddads, or any mentors. We wanted to be like them so we replicated them. A knife was like a right of passage. So when something we love so much is starting to fade away and being replaced with something different or new, we come to the defense. I know I do. I don’t like ar-15 style rifles. I have em, but they are not my first choice to go hunting with. I find myself reaching for an old Stevens shotgun or Winchester 30-30 not because of the utilitarian uses but I’m comfortable with them. The same with a knife. Would a Benchmade be better choice rather than a trapper? Maybe or maybe not. I’m just more comfortable with something I’m used to.
 
22-rimfire said:
So where do Vic SAKs fit into this pattern or observation?
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I don't have an answer for you, because I saw very few of them growing up. I've used and carried a knife since the early 1960s, and I never owned an SAK until I tried my first alox model about 4 years ago. I was aware of the red plastic ones, but hardly ever encountered one in person, and wasn't interested at all in the red plastic. The alox Cadet in particular has been a revelation to me, and I now have a pile of them in different colors, and always have one on me.
 
Dean51 said:
GEC's 1095 is heat treated and cryo tempered by Peters HT to 58-59 HRc
Case's CV is is a modified 1085, .86 carbon, heat treated to 55 HRc
There's a difference :rolleyes:
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Until I start making my sandwiches with Ham5v30, either of these steels will do the job just fine! :D

I prefer the traditional style knives just because they instill a sense of pride in owning and maintaining them, that I don't get with the one modern I have. That's about as subjective as it gets, I suppose. I also may be in the way minority, but I seem to get a much finer edge on my tru-sharp blades than I can on my CV or 1095... not sure why that is, but they work great for me.

All that being said, I'm really looking forward to getting this year's forum knife!
 
22-rimfire said:
So where to Vic SAKs fit into this pattern or observation? Only city folks carried them? I carried a Case jack knife most of my early years (Barlow initially and later simply a two blade jack knife about the same size) until I tried out my first Vic SAK (Tinker model) in the early 80's. I'd show that SAK to my Dad and he would just smile. But not really comment. I suspect he viewed them along the same line of your experience where traditional Case or Schrade knives ruled the roost. His regular carry changed from Case to Schrade to Buck, but all modest sized traditional knives. I doubt he really put much thought into the knife brand other than it was one he respected. If he needed a new knife, he bought one at the hardware store.
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Dairy farmers
 
akaMatt said:
I also may be in the way minority, but I seem to get a much finer edge on my tru-sharp blades than I can on my CV or 1095... not sure why that is, but they work great for me.
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I can get a really keen edge on my two Tru Sharp knives and the edge holding seems pretty comparable to the CV.
I like the stuff for my simple daily tasks, and prefer ease of sharpening over edge retention.
The mini trapper in tru sharp has a nice deep hollow grind and is wickedly slicey. Easily my favorite Case pattern and one of my favorite knives period.
 
Dean51 said:
GEC's 1095 is heat treated and cryo tempered by Peters HT to 58-59 HRc
Case's CV is is a modified 1085, .86 carbon, heat treated to 55 HRc
There's a difference :rolleyes:
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Case has stated on their own forum (from the company historian, with input from their engineering staff), their CV is actually what they call a 'modified 1095', and hardened 'several points' higher than their Tru-Sharp stainless (420HC). Being that their Tru-Sharp is ordinarily advertised around ~ 56 - 57 HRC, that would put their CV up around ~ 58 - 59 HRC, at least.

( Edited: the reference to CV being 'a couple points' higher in hardness was edited to 'several points', in rechecking the quote from Case's historian on the Case forum site. This is per Case's historian, Lisa Boser-Miller at the time, in 2005. )
 
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black mamba said:
I don't have an answer for you, because I saw very few of them growing up. I've used and carried a knife since the early 1960s, and I never owned an SAK until I tried my first alox model about 4 years ago. I was aware of the red plastic ones, but hardly ever encountered one in person, and wasn't interested at all in the red plastic. The alox Cadet in particular has been a revelation to me, and I now have a pile of them in different colors, and always have one on me.
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I think it goes something like this.... real knife users don't carry a SAK. But I disagree with that. I still essentially carry a Tinker although it is a 111mm version now. The plastic never really bothered me. I have alox ones too. The paint does get a bit pocket worn on them. When I carry a traditional now as a primary, I will slip the Vic Bantam into my pocket. The reality is that I could probably be just fine with the Bantam or most any good traditional knife for my every day carry. I just like knives. They are easy to sharpen. But, I essentially think its comparable to Case's stainless or even Rough Rider's 440A. I like the better stuff (steel and so forth), but I carry what is likely one of the cheapest steels most days.... can't really explain it.
 
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