Finnish/Earlier Scandi axes - Kirves

Ok, so you're right up there in piilukirves country then. Here I am, thinking you were D of California. Maybe I'm the only one.

Such a handle as you describe for your area is likely from Swedish influence. Hum, I have to winder about this combination, backwards arch on a piilukirves
 
Nope just my first name + initials.

Yeah it might be some swedish influence, both he and I are native swedish speakers, in my municipality it's about 80% swedish speakers. I was trying to look for visual examples of piilukirves (bilyxa in swedish) on google and there are models with back swept handles. I am told it's a slight sweep so think something like the first picture
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New production from a smith, more extreme curves. Don't know if it's a traditional shape or what region.

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Few more examples, a slight sweep back, and the sweep towards the other direction near the end of the handle. I interpret that as a finnish thing. A gränsfors seems to lack that

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I was also suggested to make it longer, because the old shaft lengths where made for people on average 10cm shorter
 
Right on,Dennis,Very neat stuff,those are some lovely old Piilu.

What i think is lacking in this discussion is the other half of the equation-the wood,or the actual work for which Piilu was developed and used.
Do you by chance have any photos of any surfaces,new or old,Local to you,that have been worked down by using piilu?
 
There are a lot of old log houses still standing here and being lived in, though I don't live in any of them. And they don't look like log houses since they most often have exterior paneling.

There's a place called Stundars near me, which is a kind of agricultural museum and where they keep old buildings and practice old crafts, going there is a good way to see old houses. They have disassembled several houses and moved them to the site over the years.

One can see alot of images from the site here:
www.google.com

Google Maps

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Most of the surfaces are quite weathered however.

Here is a video from the place and a incidentially the guy I mentioned is in it, it's a restoration of an 1800s wind mill, making a new central shaft, there's some hewing in the video with a piilu.

It's a shame there's no english subtitles
 
Excellent,Dennis,thank you Very much.

I couldn't access the museum photos,my sat-based reception too goofy today(and in general),but could see some of those lovely,"scalloped"-looking surfaces left by piilu work in the video.

It's all extremely important,as a tool and the marks that it leaves are like a bolt& it's nut,one without the other gets abstract soon...

I live in an area where (relatively)quite a few Finnish craftsmen used to live about 100 years ago.They didn't leave behind any structures,only a rare element here and there(and it's not the kind of place where structures remain for long).

My interest in the subject is unfortunately a large % abstract,however.Although i do have a cabin to build this summer,and walls will be "lafte",and i will be finishing the inside surfaces by hand,but because of cost and expediency it'll be all electric planer work...:(
However,sometimes,as a builder,i get quite a bit from some details of old construction...(loved the header of that opening at top of the mill!...and that granite bearing block at it's sill-what neat stuff!:)).
 
Then on the practicle, the piilukirves works well on overly dry wood where another axe will tear excessively and if I'm not mistaken it looks to be the case in this video instance also typical piilukirves work was done at a much later stage in the building then say, oh, how a Swedish house or a French mountain house would be convieved and built. Just a bullshit observation but I don't think the piilukirves in this form was existing in the 1800s. That earlier form has the extended body and narrower but still very bulked up bit composition, something like the new made piilukirves in the picture up there.
 
I was told by he who was hewing in the video that for the fine "scallop hewing" he has a separate piilu with a more convex grind, that helps in achieving the splinter free (important, especially on an interior wall) scalloped look. But for regular hewing and shaping of timber he uses a grind that is only slightly convex, otherwise the piilu would want to exit the wood again too easily and would be dangerous and go flying towards your legs, as you stand straddled over the log when working on it. In other regions in the world they stand differently, some have the log high up and stand beside it and work, but here they straddle it while the log is near the ground.

I took up blacksmithing last year and some day I hope to have progressed to the point I can make my own axes and piilus. This piilu I am restoring now will be used in making a small storage shed / smithy. It's going to be normal stick construction but I wull use hewn roof beams for holding up the roof, so those I will hew from logs I got.
 
That's some excellent information,Dennis,thank you most kindly.

I really like your plan,one's own forge is wonderful,and really is a must for the regular practice that makes the controlled hand-forging advance at a satisfying rate.

I've been forging for 20+ years,and must say that tools,axes especially,are the only thing that Really held my interest,axes in my opinion are the supreme challenge to any smith.

You're very lucky to be living in a place where the tradition of forged woodworking tools is very old and Very developed,and most importantly-still alive.
You'll have a marvelous time exploring it all,guaranteed!
The Very best of luck to you with these undertakings.
 
P.S.

Dennis,if ever you get a chance to actually watch an experienced smith put together an axe(any axe,really,but especially an older composite job like the Piilu),watch them Most carefully,each and every detail of process,all of it being extremely important.
Record it for the future,if possible.Once embarked upon an axe-head at the forge you'll immediately have questions that will be Very difficult to find solution to on your own,by experimenting solely.

A few years ago Ernest helped organize a unique gathering of smiths where they explored the forging of that "1700" type Swedish "piilu"(much like that modern forged one in your photos above).It was extremely challenging for me to even see all the different solutions that those smiths have found to all the inevitable myriad problems that arise.

Much of it is due to the fact that such knowledge is passing away from us...And it's Extremely difficult to re-establish,outside the living,functioning tradition,that may still be happening to whatever degree where you're at.
 
P.P.S.

Living very remotely,and connected to the axe-forging community by internet only,i struggled over the years with very variable success.
One of the designs that i always found very attractive is a fairly common Scandinavian hewing hatchet that i especially like in Stefan Ronnquist iteration.
After many years,and many tries,a couple months ago i came up with what i probably like best so far(still Very far from the original though).
It's a very small tool,maybe a pound and a half,but even something that small can Really challenge a guy struggling in the dark,without relying on some solid knowledge or advice from a more informed,experienced smith.

https://imgur.com/a/BnqcJhl

I'd love to forge a Piilu some day,but quite possibly may never get there,as i may be running out of physiology to work the mass of steel past certain weight...:( And Piilu-like tools have that Very intimidating mass at the blade.

As you practice forging,please pay very close attention to doing it in such a manner as to not damage any part of yourself.It sounds trite and self-evident,but it does take some effort to not do careless stuff,in the heat of the battle you may say.
I'm paying the price now for all the cavalier things i've done at the anvil,and the ultimate price would be inability to forge at all(and i'm where i can actually see the end...:(..).
 
I have read a lot about people injuring themselves so I am wary of that and developing proper technique, so far I haven't injured myself, I find the site iforgeiron.com to be full of useful advice. I sadly don't know any axe smiths in real life. Only on line.

I found this video showing close up details of finish hewing and some nice scalloped looks

Nils Ögren on youtube is also great, I think, he makes a lot of traditional axes, I think this was my favorite:

I have asked him about the books where he finds this, I also got contacted by a guy who had made a dissertation on old scandinavian axe making and the swedish wrapped eye, and also tried forging one and it contains a lot of good info, but he asked me not to share his work unfortunately.

Here's a norweigan hewing axe by Nils, the book he got this from is "Kunsten at smi" which is norweigan for smithing, I plan to get this book as well, I can read and understand norweigan pretty well, danish is understandable in text too (though listening to danish it's just impossible to understand...). It's quite an expensive book so trying to find one 2nd hand . My smithing plans for the summer is making tongs, and forge welding reins. Hook knives for spoon making, forge welded woodworking chisels and plane blades for homemade planes too. And perhaps try a forgewelded knife.

 
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DennisCA said:
Nils Ögren on youtube is also great, I think, he makes a lot of traditional axes, I think this was my favorite:
Click to expand...
Yes,i like Nils a lot too,i especially appreciate that segment at the end of his videos where he kind of summarizes the process,his notes on it in a way.
(at present i'm unable to see any of the video links you posted,but i'll check them out once reception is back)

DennisCA said:
the book he got this from is "Kunsten at smi"
Click to expand...

That book,and the scholarly stuff you mention all sound very interesting,i hope you do get to read it all.
I'm not familiar with either,and have seen only some few of the illustrations from that very good book by Lars Enander(if you have a chance to look through a copy i'd very much recommend it,i'd not be surprised if a larger city's library would have a copy).

DennisCA said:
My smithing plans for the summer is making tongs, and forge welding reins. Hook knives for spoon making, forge welded woodworking chisels and plane blades for homemade planes too. And perhaps try a forgewelded knife.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a Great plan,very rich in all sorts of important detail and practice of crucial skills,yes,right on,and i'd very much look forward to seeing the results!

Couple of recent-ish project photos to demonstrate that i can relate to just such choice:

https://imgur.com/a/Q9REZ25

https://imgur.com/a/VSTYyY8

(that last was a funky regional knife known in the New World by a Algonquin term "micataugan")
 
DennisCA said:
I mentioned the damage to the axe to a friend who has extensive knowledge and works with log houses from time to time and he said that bit with the bent shafts and popping them out and turning around was a Savolax-thing, in in my region (Ostrobothnia) they where not traditionally used. Shaft is straight and arcing backwards,
Click to expand...
Turning them around sounds very savolax to me ;) :)
Down here (southern Tavastia/northmost Uusimaa) we do it like you in Ostrobotnia
 
DennisCA said:
Here's a norweigan hewing axe by Nils,
Click to expand...

Dennis,i see the picture of the axe in title frame of video-Very neat work,Nils progresses incredibly fast,good for him!

As a tool,those Laftebile are something else again...They Are a hewing axe,but they function in a very different manner from many other types...
Gorgeous tools in general,Nils' one is a beauty!
 
old Lefty said:
sounds very savolax to me ;) :)
Click to expand...

:)...I've only seen this once,in a museum historic reproduction video(ashamed to admit not remembering the region).
The guy swaps the head from right to left handed use,in final finish hewing of the walls,inside and out.
It was a symmetrical head...

How do you do that with a socket-eye Piilu?

And i finally got to see the Piilu in action video.WOW.
Unbelievable control,can't even imagine being that Good,that consistent as far as control...( and separately the sharpening that it entails!)
 
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Not as clear and straight-grained,nor can i exercise selection like those guys there:)

Finland,all of Scandinavia,is right up against all the ocean moisture,+ the Gulfstream...AND,many areas are dead-flat...

I actually want to ascribe some of the architectural choices/decisions there solely to quality of their sticks(which in turn affected the tools themselves).
 
But you're right,Ernest,it's for the most part practice.Lots of practice.

The guy in that video seems to be ambidextrous,too(something i've a hard time with).
The log that he's on on the "cover" of video-see how he's finishing up the bottom portion of that log,looks like he did the top coming the other way(probably because of twist).
 
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