First knife build need help

I dont know what your knife using experience level is, and this is just my $.02, but for starters 7" blade is not a small knife. Not even close. Average bush/camp/hunters that tend to be good all around are 4" give or take. For some reason everyone wants to carry some quasi-machete into the woods. I have spent nearly 50% of my life in the woods and for a knife (read not a machete/hatchet/etc... I carry those if that's what I need... ) a well designed 4" blade is perfect.

Second... concentrate on one thing at a time. You started with asking about steel for your first knife, a keeper, for camp use. Now you are talking about knives for others, etc... The details make all the difference in the world. There is way more than you probably think to taking a bar of steel and turning it into a well crafted knife. After you finish your first, then think about the next. I can't tell you how many times I read on here these exact words... 'This is my first knife... well, the first one I finished. I have about 8 others that are in various stages...'

I can say without a doubt the best knives I have made were worked solely on from start to finish. For those that do this for a living, or have been for many years, managing several projects at a time is doable, maybe even easy. For those of us with a day job and many concerns therein, its just too much spread for the neurons. I have discovered that about two projects in the works is all I can handle at a time without losing track of what I'm doing, or losing that all important momentum that fuels a project through to completion.

And blade geometry means the overall profile of the blade. How the grind, edge, thickness, and overall shape of the blade work together. It is literally, geometry... shapes and stuff...
A fighting knife has a different shape, thickness, and grind than a skinner. A chef's knife much different than a bowie. Best bet is to find something similar to what you want to make, preferrably from a reputable maker, and copy that. Start a work in progress thread, post your design, and listen to the feedback. After you draw up and finish your design, order the steel. Too many people short themselves by fitting a design to the steel, not the steel to the design.

There is a lot... lot lot lot of really good knowledge in the heads of the guys here. And this is a wonderfully supportive community. Oh, and read the stickies... lol.

Cheers, welcome to the addiction.
 
Some very very good advice Lucy.

I can honestly say I fit many of those pitfalls you point out.

Op, you're getting great advice in this thread. Take it to heart and skip some problems. It really is surprising how much steel is in whatever bar you choose to remove stock from.

As for the cpm154/154cm (that's what you are referring to right?), the first is made by Crucible and is a more advanced steel by way of powder metallurgy. All of the alloying "ingredients" are better distributed, and the carbides are finer if I understand it correctly. Many here understand it better than I do, but if you are sending out for HT, and the cost is negligible, I'd take the powder steel.
 
I too am new to making knives and am not a pro by any means. But here are some things I have learned from my first dozen or so knives.
1. Read the stickies.
2. Keeping it simple in design is making me a better knife maker then the odd ball stuff I have tried.
3. Go slow, it is easy to remove stock. It is hard to put it back on.
4. Keep your work in perspective, many of these people on this site have worked years to acquire the knowledge and skills they have. Your first knife results may differ from their end results.
 
Very good points and after driving myself almost crazy with sketch after sketch I think I'm just going to do the 4-5" design I did a couple years back... If I can find it if not I'll redo it and post it for you guys to either rip it apart or tell me it's time to order the steel. Once again thank you for all the wisdom and advice. Time to head to staples and get another sketch pad:eagerness:
 
It's probably help to tell you guys I've been messing around with knives of all shapes and sizes since I was about 8 and throwing since I was about 14. Was in the good old BSA back when it was basically youth boot camp( at least that's how my troop leader was) I am a big believer most any knife can serve the purpose you need it for so long as it's not obscenely over sized if small( took a splinter out of my exs hand with an eight inch gerber lol). And between the stickies and google searches I'm starting to get a better idea of how it all works. And what I can't figure out in those two you guys are invaluable to filling in the gaps( or a smack to the back of the head when I get ahead of myself :smile: )
 
I was also an Eagle Scout 25 years ago, Order of the Arrow/Brotherhood, as well as a Search and Rescue team leader, Trail marker/conservationist for the Overmountain Victory Trail, have literally 1000's of miles and hundreds of nights on the AT and surrounding trails... lived/worked/hunted and fished in Colorado for 7 years pulling 6 of the 14'rs, 2 during winter...
Add to that I have been hunting since I was 10, fishing since I was 7, and my full time 'day job' has me in a spot that sees me carrying and using a tactical type blade all the time. As well as a Defensive Tactics instructor for other LEO's where I just love me some blade play... lol. And I am by far not the most qualified knife user on the boards...

Can almost any blade be used to complete task x, y, or z? Yes, but there is such a thing as an ideal knife for the task.

I'm not meaning that as a call out, just that my suggestions were coming from a valid platform. I very rarely need more than 4" to get the job done... (no dirty jokes please guys... this is a PG forum apparently...)

Cheers. The absolute best piece of advice I have ever been given is to remember this is supposed to be a fun endeavor. If you are feeling stressed, your work will show it... If it ain't clicking, take a break...
 
You win lol. I never quite made it to eagle but more so just wanted to say I know the woods and water and the task I have in mind. That being said the new design is in the works and from how it's turning out it'll be about 4 1/2" with I think a drop point since no other point seems to flow with the design as well. And to post a picture on here since I'm not a paying member I have to link it to something like photobucket right?
 
To post photos I use imgur.com
Create an account, load your photos, and post them by copy/pasting the link provided for forums. I need to resize to keep them from being overly large.

Good luck,
Chris
 
I use l pintrest. Its free, and allows you to link for posting here as well as share on there. Just open your pics, right click and view image info. Copy and paste the URL here. I dont work for them, so dont think I'm advertising... but there are some great knife pages on there. It also resizes I think when you upload. At least it seems to...

Cheers!
 
A sharpened top edge (not to mention a thick spine where the cutting edge typically is) doesn't usually offer much utility.

Just playin. :p

Turning the image over would help though. ;)
 
This is my suggestion, take it or leave it.
For any blade, I tend to stay away from rings. They tend to limit the functionality of a blade IMHO...
I also like more belly on an outdoor blade. This is where you are going to do the vast majority of your cutting. A long pointy front end is just a liability (in that it will snap off...) I also like a really high flat grind. The higher up the blade you take your grind, the better your edge will function. The body of the blade has to pass through all the material the edge separates. If you are pushing a fat wedge through that material, you are effectively pushing uphill. There will be plenty of material there to support the blade and keep it nice and rigid. I would go 5/32" thick or so. 1/8" will do too, but I have also gone as thick as 3/16" on this type of blade. With a high enough grind it is still a nice slicer. For lanyard loops/tubes/etc, you have the right idea of down and away. Little exposed thin areas of metal like that which are unsupported tend to bend or snap the first time they get whacked on anything. If you do happen to do an exposed lanyard hole, just make sure you leave enough material around it. The butt design there is just my current favorite as far as retention and reduction of hotspotting go. Flare out the scales at the butt, thin near the pinky and ring fingers, and thicker again mid grip, etc.

And I couldn't tell, assuming inch rule graph paper? If so, for me that would have to be lengthened a bit. I wear an XL glove, and usually need about 4.5-5" of handle... Modeling clay and a ruler are a good way to get a basic idea of what is comfortable in your hand. Just squeeze the clay over the ruler and shape it till it feels good. Then measure that...

Just a tip, if you are set on a ring grip like that, I would drill that hole first. A step drill up to about an inch should do. Then draw and cut the design out around that hole. Holes or smooth curves are one of the hardest things to get right while keeping an even amount of material around them. I did a spur knife this way and it turned out well... I use a large step drill as the inside curve anywhere I have a really tight turn in almost any stock reduction knife. Keeps them perfectly round...

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Just as an example, this is a tactical knife I developed with some other operators. We discovered during some blade play with karambits, that someone who knows what they are doing could really mess up a finger for the knife user in certain situations. We liked the retention though, and decided to modify it into a hook. It also protects the fingers when using the glass breaker butt... I used the step drill for all of the finger grooves/loops, and then cut out the rest of the design around it.

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My only concern with the belly being like that is how does it do for filleting trout? My over all goal with the blade shape was to use the back half for battoning and the front half for cleaning so I'm no having to put a edge back on the blade after I get the fire going. And the ring hole was just for added grip cleaning fish. I've seen to many people have a fish they think us dead give one last kick and watch the knife go into their other hand but I see your point. What about something like a groove big enough to lock my index finger there to keep it in place?
 
For filleting fish? use a fillet knife. They bend for a reason and have rubber grippy handles that are easy to hold onto. They are also cheap and losable. I fly fish a lot... I mean, a lot... and I have cleaned fish with a knife that was meant for other tasks in a pinch. But, nothing beats a dedicated knife for that purpose. That said, a lot of belly is ideal for bigger game, and leaving a good portion of dead flat near the ricasso is where you will do your battoning. A long tip is prohibitive when field dressing or skinning out a deer for instance. Ever cut into a nice fresh set of intestines accidentally? I have... Of course, I usually have a zipper (dedicated gut hook) with me too. In all honesty if I'm fishing, I have my camp knife and a fillet knife. If I am hunting, I have my camp knife and a zipper. The first camp knife I did for myself had a gut hook on the back of the blade, and it worked, but I found the dedicated hook much easier to deal with especially when the blood started flowing.

Keeping it short can also let you get up in a chest cavity, etc. Obviously, that sketch is just what seems to work for me. A Mora, for instance, makes a great camp knife for a lot of people and would be handier cleaning a fish than my camp knife. But, I have had a Mora, and they just weren't hearty enough for me the rest of the time. Say, whacking a limb off a tree and quickly sharpening up some sticks to cook on or battoning kindling. Adjust it how you feel would best suit your needs.

As far as the ring or deep finger groove go... a properly shaped handle is wider in front of and behind your grip. Thus, squeezing down locks it into your hand.

Cheers,

Edit: I reread that and it comes off kinda 'this is my way and the only way blah blah blah...' I didn't mean it that way... only what seems to work for me. I get the desire to have a one size fits all outdoor blade. Lord help me if I ever find it. And if you find it first please share! I have been trying to find one for years that would fit that role.
Scrap wood is great for shaping something out quick and seeing how it works...
 
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Ok now I see where your coming from. For filleting fish I prefer something like a santoku. Usually have my index on the blade to guide it and the rest wrapped around the handle. Something about the curve in a fillet knife just doesn't feel comfortable to me and the bend tends to throw me off more than help. Then again I'm probably one of the few that can slip on a wet floor in non slip shoes but glide across it like nothing in regular shoes or boots.

On a side note how's the fly fishing there? I completely understand being in the rivers or lakes any chance you can get. If I'm not working and I think I can get a bite everyone knows I'm MIA till I'm out of the water. There's only two ( unless I can find property to hunt) seasons, fly fishing and fly tying :smile:
 
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Well since it's winter officially in Michigan I picked up a handle ready santoku to finish up and keep me from losing my mind while I wait for njsb to get the cpm 154cm in. Thanks for all the help Lucy. Going to take your advice and keep my main camp knife in the 4-6 range since that feels more comfortable to me. Still toying with a design and making some wood test designs. Can not thank you enough for the advice and to everyone else who's chimed in with words of wisdom. Any advice on making the more traditionally shaped japanese handle? The blade is from zhen knives and I've already filed it down a bit so if I just drill out the handle it should just drop in and be ready for pinning.
 
For Japanese style, hit up Stacy (bladsmth)... He's a virtual Wikipedia of Japanese style and kitchem cutlery... I think he even knows a little of the lingo... lol.

Cheers!

-Eric
 
Mock ups are wonderful for exploring a design.
Sorry, didn't see your question about the fishing!
Fishing here is awesome, but I miss the big fast waters of the Rockies, but here I get my fair share in. We have a river here considered to be the best on the east coast for 'bows and brookies. I go to NC some for golden trout as well. For slow waters we have some good big rivers we can float and throw poppers bankside for bass, crappie, sunfish and such. There are also some high mountain (relatively speaking after having thrown bugs on glacial lakes in the rockies) that are a blast for brookies that have adapted to warmer slow water...
I am the same way... I see the hatch coming and I am MIA. A good mayfly hatch here means insane conditions. Some streams are stocked, and the spinner crowd sticks to those areas leaving the hike-in areas to us bug slingers...
Check out Combat Fly Fishing if you are in for a chuckle. I used to hang with those guys. Did some Snake River cut throat fishing and even small water tip fishing in some insane spots out there....

I'll give an open invitation to the members here... If you're ever in my neck of the woods I can guide you to some crazy spots. I'm 'bugchucker' in some other places on the web I won't mention, but same goes if you find me there.

BTW: My Christmas present to myself last year was a new RL Winston 9' #6 rod...:)

Cheers!
 
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