Fixed fighter--------suggestions???

[leghog]

For a pure fighting knife, nothing beats a dagger.

 

[d762nato]

62RC with cryo done by TruGrit.

Sounds good this should be a nice one.

 

[Charlie_K]

I've always loved the M3 trench knife.

 

[mrbeaattie]

I've always loved the M3 trench knife.

I love that knife may need one to keep my glock 78 company... every time I look at this forum it gives me ideas to blow cash on....

Chris

 

[Coke]

For a pure fighting knife, nothing beats a dagger. The Cold Steel Tai Pan in 3V is a fine example and has a point that's beefier than a lot of single edge knives.

If that's what does it for you as a fighter dave, then power to ya, but it doesn't do it for me, which is why I don't have any dagger/stiletto knives; and I never will.

To me, the most important attribute of a fighter is its ability to sustain heavy blows for an extended period of time without compromising the blade. Can anyone guarantee themselves that if they ever get into a situation where they have to use a knife to defend their life, that it will be with just ONE attacker? Can they even guarantee themselves that their attacker will have normal or below average fighting prowess whilst yielding a normal or ordinary knife/fighter? What if the attacker is a powerful ultra swift and highly experienced knife fighter yielding a 14 or more inch Busse that he can handle like it was a small dagger? I've thought about what a good Busse would do to a knife like that if it struck it ONCE square on its cutting edge, and I don't like the chances of the bloke using it to block, if you know what I mean.

My own personal comprehension of what constitutes a TOP fighting knife is evolving and has evolved a lot in just the last 3 months, and I don't just base my views on what others say, I have been doing a lot of reading in the last few months pertaining to nature of steel and cutting edges thereof. I have gone into the the main University in the state I live and actually spoken directly with the Dean of Mechanical Engineering faculty on just this subject. One thing I can say now is that what most think constitutes a good fighter is not what I've come to realize, and I am not directing that at you dave. I am using it in a MUCH broader sense by taking into account what MANY people have said about it.

For instance, the way I went about designing or drafting up a fighting knife up until a month or so ago, is NOT the way I would go about it now; forget that. I was lead to believe things back then that I now know are simply WRONG, and that could cost one their life in a real heavy duty knife battle if they used a knife made up the way others say. NOT from their own lack of ability to use the knife, but because of the knife's own shortcomings and flaws in its design.

As for the dagger come stiletto; to me, it falls into a different category of knife to all others. It has it's own category and has existed since time immemorial, a category that I have NOT heard mentioned very often, if at all... and I have believed that to be the case since I was a young man many decades ago. The dagger is the Assassins knife, not the fighters. It's the kind of knife that is easily concealed and can go unnoticed when not only carried, but when one is being pat-down. It's easy to miss it even in a pat down it's that concealable. It can be pulled out and held in the hand whilst in crowd of people and hardly anyone will notice it. It can be used and placed back in a pocket a the blink of an eye, and the assailant can leave before anyone has realized that there's even been a stabbing.

Yeah. to me, it's an assassins' tools more than a fighters', and if you think about the covert and shifty way an assassin works, then it means that it's also the cowards' knife; present company excluded, because I'm speaking allegorically given the manner in which an assassin moves.

But as I implied; if it rocks you're world, keep on a rocking.

 

[Coke]

Here's an example of what I mean dave... the knife on top is one that I drafted up 3 months ago and is being built now. Originally, going by what others from an Australian knife forum had told me in private back then that seemed to know what was going on, I drew it up as you see. The second one on the bottom is essentially the same form of blade, but it's how I would design THAT form of profile of knife as a true and proper fighter NOW, one that can 'take it', as well as dish it out... BOTH knives in 1/4" CPM stock.

 

[ridnovir]

Love the TG!!! What version is that one? Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't the more affordable ones the "battlegrade" series?

This was uncoated raw finish version that is unobtainable now but they did a lot of coated "battlegrade" which are a bit more affordable and easier to find.

 

[nedflow]

This was uncounted raw finish version that is unobtainable now but they did a lot of coated "battlegrade" which are a bit more affordable and easier to find.

Def like the raw finish more. The coated battlegrade finish has such a heavy texture for such a sexy blade. It looks like popcorn ceiling, LOL!

 

[texassquarehead]

If that's what does it for you as a fighter dave, then power to ya, but it doesn't do it for me, which is why I don't have any dagger/stiletto knives; and I never will.

To me, the most important attribute of a fighter is its ability to sustain heavy blows for an extended period of time without compromising the blade. Can anyone guarantee themselves that if they ever get into a situation where they have to use a knife to defend their life, that it will be with just ONE attacker? Can they even guarantee themselves that their attacker will have normal or below average fighting prowess whilst yielding a normal or ordinary knife/fighter? What if the attacker is a powerful ultra swift and highly experienced knife fighter yielding a 14 or more inch Busse that he can handle like it was a small dagger? I've thought about what a good Busse would do to a knife like that if it struck it ONCE square on its cutting edge, and I don't like the chances of the bloke using it to block, if you know what I mean.

My own personal comprehension of what constitutes a TOP fighting knife is evolving and has evolved a lot in just the last 3 months, and I don't just base my views on what others say, I have been doing a lot of reading in the last few months pertaining to nature of steel and cutting edges thereof. I have gone into the the main University in the state I live and actually spoken directly with the Dean of Mechanical Engineering faculty on just this subject. One thing I can say now is that what most think constitutes a good fighter is not what I've come to realize, and I am not directing that at you dave. I am using it in a MUCH broader sense by taking into account what MANY people have said about it.

For instance, the way I went about designing or drafting up a fighting knife up until a month or so ago, is NOT the way I would go about it now; forget that. I was lead to believe things back then that I now know are simply WRONG, and that could cost one their life in a real heavy duty knife battle if they used a knife made up the way others say. NOT from their own lack of ability to use the knife, but because of the knife's own shortcomings and flaws in its design.

As for the dagger come stiletto; to me, it falls into a different category of knife to all others. It has it's own category and has existed since time immemorial, a category that I have NOT heard mentioned very often, if at all... and I have believed that to be the case since I was a young man many decades ago. The dagger is the Assassins knife, not the fighters. It's the kind of knife that is easily concealed and can go unnoticed when not only carried, but when one is being pat-down. It's easy to miss it even in a pat down it's that concealable. It can be pulled out and held in the hand whilst in crowd of people and hardly anyone will notice it. It can be used and placed back in a pocket a the blink of an eye, and the assailant can leave before anyone has realized that there's even been a stabbing.

Yeah. to me, it's an assassins' tools more than a fighters', and if you think about the covert and shifty way an assassin works, then it means that it's also the cowards' knife; present company excluded, because I'm speaking allegorically given the manner in which an assassin moves.

But as I implied; if it rocks you're world, keep on a rocking.

NSIS... Striking heavy blows in CQC lol. Maybe I have defensive knife and fighting knife confused? You getting carjacked or robbed in a parking lot will not look like Gladiator. I've been in a few CQC fights and seen the results of more than a few where an edged weapon was used. In this day and age a defensive knife is not an impact weapon. So many people are carrying firearms and the distance you need to swing a blade is not really your friend.

 

[Lapedog]

There are fighting schools that are slash and cut oriented and other schools that are more point driven. There are so many fighting knife designs because there are so many ways of fighting.

I hear people often slash defensively and stab in the offense.

 

[W. Anderson]

There are fighting schools that are slash and cut oriented and other schools that are more point driven. There are so many fighting knife designs because there are so many ways of fighting.

I hear people often slash defensively and stab in the offense.

This is accurate to my knowledge and experience. People lead with stabs and react witch slashes.


But you know what they say about the best defense...

 

[Coke]

NSIS... Striking heavy blows in CQC lol. Maybe I have defensive knife and fighting knife confused? You getting carjacked or robbed in a parking lot will not look like Gladiator. I've been in a few CQC fights and seen the results of more than a few where an edged weapon was used. In this day and age a defensive knife is not an impact weapon. So many people are carrying firearms and the distance you need to swing a blade is not really your friend.

I'm not just talking close quarter combat, and perhaps you do have defensive and fighting knife confused. But if you think that everyone is incapable of striking a heavy blow, with or without a knife, in close quarters, then you haven't met or known some of the people I have in my time. From what I've read on the subject, a fighter IS a defensive tool or instrument, strictly speaking, it is not an offensive weapon, which is why many countries that do NOT permit the possession of offensive weapons, do permit the importation and ownership of a fighting knife. I believe you may be confusing a fighting knife with an OFFENSIVE knife or weapon. There are knives that fall into the category of an 'offensive weapon' but not all fighters do, in fact, only a small portion of them do. Easily concealable and DUAL cutting edge are the 2 main criteria of a proper offensive knife. NON of the knives I have or would want to have fall into either of those 2 categories.

The other thing you need to realize is that in my neck of the woods, downunder, you do NOT need to carry anything with you no matter where you go or what time you go there. The authorities here have exceptional control over that, and unless you are involved in underground activity and are misbehaving at the same time, then carrying any weapon is nothing more than a waste of effort. Let alone if you're the type of bloke that can handle themselves well in a fist fight, that's about as far as you need to go here. It's the local mentality of people that does it as well. Here, if anyone is found out to have pulled a knife out on anyone else, they are immediately deemed a low life slag by even the heaviest of people. I've noticed otherwise in other parts of the world, where people accept that type of behavior as though it's the natural thing to do. I mean just because you own a car doesn't mean that you'd use it as a weapon to run over and kill someone you don't like. Why would owning a knife of any sort be any different? Ultimately, it's the intent of holder that establishes the form of weapon or instrument they have in hand, not the other way around. I doubt anyone would say that everyone who owns a gun walks around all day looking for new prospects to use it on. lol

But all that is not what I really posted about. The point I was making is regarding the GRIND of a true and proper fighter. That being a knife of defense, much more than offense.

I was under the misconception that most knifemakers use 12" grinding wheels, but in recent times I've discovered they don't... and it's not just one knifemaker that told me this. TWO have that are in this forum in just the last 3weeks. My point being that if a blade is intended to be made as a fighter, not an assassins tool, then grinding a DEEP hollow with a 10" wheel which has a grind line/depth of more than 25mm, means you're removing FAR TOO MUCH meat out of the blade. Anything over 25mm in grind depth, deep hollow, is ONLY good for hunting. To play it really safe, I would not be interested in any more than a 20mm grind depth in those circumstances, and even then, I would prefer to have a seamless convex bevel along the forward sweep/rake of the cutting edge leading up to the very tip of the knife to solidify things, just in case. Then I would consider it a fighting blade, after you go past the 25mm depth mark; forget it. I know my math and I know trigonometry and calculus like the back of my hand, I use to get paid a small fortune using it for many years.

But if others feel that a near wafer thin wall of steel just behind their cutting edge is where it's at; then good luck to them.

That's my point texas.

Cheers man.

 

[texassquarehead]

I'm not just talking close quarter combat, and perhaps you do have defensive and fighting knife confused. But if you think that everyone is incapable of striking a heavy blow, with or without a knife, in close quarters, then you haven't met or known some of the people I have in my time. From what I've read on the subject, a fighter IS a defensive tool or instrument, strictly speaking, it is not an offensive weapon, which is why many countries that do NOT permit the possession of offensive weapons, do permit the importation and ownership of a fighting knife. I believe you may be confusing a fighting knife with an OFFENSIVE knife or weapon. There are knives that fall into the category of an 'offensive weapon' but not all fighters do, in fact, only a small portion of them do. Easily concealable and DUAL cutting edge are the 2 main criteria of a proper offensive knife. NON of the knives I have or would want to have fall into either of those 2 categories.

The other thing you need to realize is that in my neck of the woods, downunder, you do NOT need to carry anything with you no matter where you go or what time you go there. The authorities here have exceptional control over that, and unless you are involved in underground activity and are misbehaving at the same time, then carrying any weapon is nothing more than a waste of effort. Let alone if you're the type of bloke that can handle themselves well in a fist fight, that's about as far as you need to go here. It's the local mentality of people that does it as well. Here, if anyone is found out to have pulled a knife out on anyone else, they are immediately deemed a low life slag by even the heaviest of people. I've noticed otherwise in other parts of the world, where people accept that type of behavior as though it's the natural thing to do. I mean just because you own a car doesn't mean that you'd use it as a weapon to run over and kill someone you don't like. Why would owning a knife of any sort be any different? Ultimately, it's the intent of holder that establishes the form of weapon or instrument they have in hand, not the other way around. I doubt anyone would say that everyone who owns a gun walks around all day looking for new prospects to use it on. lol

But all that is not what I really posted about. The point I was making is regarding the GRIND of a true and proper fighter. That being a knife of defense, much more than offense.

I was under the misconception that most knifemakers use 12" grinding wheels, but in recent times I've discovered they don't... and it's not just one knifemaker that told me this. TWO have that are in this forum in just the last 3weeks. My point being that if a blade is intended to be made as a fighter, not an assassins tool, then grinding a DEEP hollow with a 10" wheel which has a grind line/depth of more than 25mm, means you're removing FAR TOO MUCH meat out of the blade. Anything over 25mm in grind depth, deep hollow, is ONLY good for hunting. To play it really safe, I would not be interested in any more than a 20mm grind depth in those circumstances, and even then, I would prefer to have a seamless convex bevel along the forward sweep/rake of the cutting edge leading up to the very tip of the knife to solidify things, just in case. Then I would consider it a fighting blade, after you go past the 25mm depth mark; forget it. I know my math and I know trigonometry and calculus like the back of my hand, I use to get paid a small fortune using it for many years.

But if others feel that a near wafer thin wall of steel just behind their cutting edge is where it's at; then good luck to them.

That's my point texas.

Cheers man.

I don't own any safe queens, either knives or sidearms, and look at everything in terms of utility. I won't be fighting anyone with a blade that's too large to carry or isn't legal to carry so that it's sitting at home. I also prefer a blade that's not so cumbersome that I can also strike with my hand while holding it. The one I recommended earlier does that and can be gripped in the weak hand solidly while holding your handgun in your strong hand with little compromise.

 

[Coke]

I get what you're saying, we were on different points. Some of us do collect safe queens, I think that the majority of knives fighters and folders sold on the entire world market today, especially those over the 500 buck mark, are safe queens. So in a way, it's the people that make their knives safe queens that have helped, and do help, this industry more so than the users.

But hey, to me, it's good either way. Safer queens, users, we've all found a common "love" ground per ce.

 

[texassquarehead]

I get what you're saying, we were on different points. Some of us do collect safe queens, I think that the majority of knives fighters and folders sold on the entire world market today, especially those over the 500 buck mark, are safe queens. So in a way, it's the people that make their knives safe queens that have helped, and do help, this industry more so than the users.

But hey, to me, it's good either way. Safer queens, users, we've all found a common "love" ground per ce.

And no disparaging folks who are collectors, I appreciate quality and craftsmanship in blades and firearms, my interests are simply different, partially due to career. I love parusing the marketplace here to see what folks have built.

 

[Coke]

I'm with you there Texas, it's a big boys art form to me, albeit one that requires or uses a form of engineering/science to achieve. It's when the engineering is applied in a practical and artistic manner that magic happens... for me anyway.

Another thing about it for me; although I'm fully aware that I would never have the need to use such an instrument for it's intended purpose, I take a certain inner pride at knowing that any knife I've drafted and had made for myself, if EVER at some point in time in future it is passed onto or bought by a member of the armed forces to use on duty, that it won't let them down and possibly end up costing them in a bad way. After all, the type of knives I have made are not something that your average street type kid could afford, even if they were 2nd hand. So it is most likely that the ones I bequest my collection to, if they decide they don't want to hold onto them and prefer to cash them in, then chances are they would be bought by a working adult. Who knows how many more times they may be onsold, but if any of them end up in the hands of a services man or women, even from the grave I would take pride in knowing that it helped them save their life, and the lives of others, if it ever came to the crunch.

It's a beautiful thing, and that's no joke.

... and THAT'S why I want to make certain that the blades I have made will be able to last the hard yards when put to the test. The only way of doing that is to build them in a manner that allows them to take-it as well as they can give-it. I am one of those people Texas that thinks about the distant future as well as the present, which is also why I often go for 1/4" stock of the best stainless CPM steel.

 

[Legendary_Jarl]

If that's what does it for you as a fighter dave, then power to ya, but it doesn't do it for me, which is why I don't have any dagger/stiletto knives; and I never will.

To me, the most important attribute of a fighter is its ability to sustain heavy blows for an extended period of time without compromising the blade. Can anyone guarantee themselves that if they ever get into a situation where they have to use a knife to defend their life, that it will be with just ONE attacker? Can they even guarantee themselves that their attacker will have normal or below average fighting prowess whilst yielding a normal or ordinary knife/fighter? What if the attacker is a powerful ultra swift and highly experienced knife fighter yielding a 14 or more inch Busse that he can handle like it was a small dagger? I've thought about what a good Busse would do to a knife like that if it struck it ONCE square on its cutting edge, and I don't like the chances of the bloke using it to block, if you know what I mean.

My own personal comprehension of what constitutes a TOP fighting knife is evolving and has evolved a lot in just the last 3 months, and I don't just base my views on what others say, I have been doing a lot of reading in the last few months pertaining to nature of steel and cutting edges thereof. I have gone into the the main University in the state I live and actually spoken directly with the Dean of Mechanical Engineering faculty on just this subject. One thing I can say now is that what most think constitutes a good fighter is not what I've come to realize, and I am not directing that at you dave. I am using it in a MUCH broader sense by taking into account what MANY people have said about it.

For instance, the way I went about designing or drafting up a fighting knife up until a month or so ago, is NOT the way I would go about it now; forget that. I was lead to believe things back then that I now know are simply WRONG, and that could cost one their life in a real heavy duty knife battle if they used a knife made up the way others say. NOT from their own lack of ability to use the knife, but because of the knife's own shortcomings and flaws in its design.

As for the dagger come stiletto; to me, it falls into a different category of knife to all others. It has it's own category and has existed since time immemorial, a category that I have NOT heard mentioned very often, if at all... and I have believed that to be the case since I was a young man many decades ago. The dagger is the Assassins knife, not the fighters. It's the kind of knife that is easily concealed and can go unnoticed when not only carried, but when one is being pat-down. It's easy to miss it even in a pat down it's that concealable. It can be pulled out and held in the hand whilst in crowd of people and hardly anyone will notice it. It can be used and placed back in a pocket a the blink of an eye, and the assailant can leave before anyone has realized that there's even been a stabbing.

Yeah. to me, it's an assassins' tools more than a fighters', and if you think about the covert and shifty way an assassin works, then it means that it's also the cowards' knife; present company excluded, because I'm speaking allegorically given the manner in which an assassin moves.

But as I implied; if it rocks you're world, keep on a rocking.

Of the many adjectives that could be aplied to them, I sincerely doubt "coward" would be applicable to the SAS who carried & fought the Nazi's using the Fairbairn Sykes fighting knife(or the US Marines using the Gerber MK I & II). Very easy to call somebody a coward behind your desk in the safety of your home. Experiencing combat is something entirely different. Also, the SAS trained in Defendu learned FRONTAL combat, not just stabbing in the back. Also, if you study HEMA you will notice that there are entire manuals dealing with FRONTAL combat using daggers. Another example is the Main Gauche which was used in conjunction with a sword. Your comment is really out of place, in my opinion. As if you couldn't use a bowie knife to stab in the back.

 

[Coke]

If the SAS then had access to today's knives, I'd wager anything you want that they would NEVER have used the daggers they did then. And those daggers were a lot bigger than the ones I'm referring to as an assassin's tool. As for the coward part, read carefully what I wrote, and you can delete what you wrote about it if you like, or see whatever you wish in the words of others.

 

[Legendary_Jarl]

If the SAS then had access to today's knives, I'd wager anything you want that they would NEVER have used the daggers they did then. And those daggers were a lot bigger than the ones I'm referring to as an assassin's tool. As for the coward part, read carefully what I wrote, and you can delete what you wrote about it if you like, or see whatever you wish in the words of others.

The FS dagger is still issued nowadays to certain units as produced by the Egginton group. You could even get the sterile, unmarked MOD version sold by pacific bladeware of australia. So, I wouldn't wager if I were you.

 

[texassquarehead]

The FS dagger is still issued nowadays to certain units as produced by the Egginton group. You could even get the sterile, unmarked MOD version sold by pacific bladeware of australia. So, I wouldn't wager if I were you.

The same model knife I posted (and own/carry) is carried by a number of tactical officers (state and local). Pretty popular for a spear point and thick enough to pry open crates though they make an even thicker knife marketed as a "first responder tool" called the beast.