Friction Forged test blade

This might be a dumb question, but since the rope being cut is not synthetic, does anyone know how much effect ambient conditions (temperature and humidity) and the moisture content and temperature of the rope itself have on cutting? I haven't done any rope cutting, but I have handled a bit of rope, and at the very least, pliability seems to be affected.

For instance would there be a different number of cuts on a cold dry day vs. a really hot humid day? Or if the rope is damp from storage, does anything change as it dries?

If it does have an effect, this would be a good reason for the simultaneous testing.
 
kneedeep said:
This might be a dumb question, but since the rope being cut is not synthetic, does anyone know how much effect ambient conditions (temperature and humidity) and the moisture content and temperature of the rope itself have on cutting?
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Moisture has a strong effect as it will make it a corrosion test. But even the exact same brand of rope from the same store is different on the exact same day. I random sample from at least six rolls.

Cobalt said:
Also, comparison tests should not be done by the one who owns,sells or hypes one of the brands being tested
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Generally salesmen are not the best people to ask for unbaised information about a product. Generally, the test should be blind so you can offer any subjective bias.

Wayne G. said:
However, I can’t relate very well to the number of push cuts because there was no mention of any comparisons made with other blades.
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Again there was, they have done it publically with two knives, both theirs. Fikes also does the same type of test with his knives which are 1095. He demonstrates it in his video.

We believe that a slicing cut on rope is the best way to test cutting endurance.
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Many meat workers like a highly polished edge, as in 0.5 micron and smooth steels, this is push cutting. If you want a really long lasting rope edge, just leave the edge really coarse. An 80 grit belt edge will cut rope for a long time even with a *mild steel blade*. I showed the poundages for this on the website years ago with a test blade I made out of a tension bar.

I have done well over 2000 slices on 3/8" hemp with a D2 blade and it just reached 20 lbs. Going to thirty would have taken somewhere close to 10, 000. This was also when was doing the cuts on a hard backing media which was blunting the edge as much as the rope I found out later. So for free cutting rope, maybe 20, 000 and these were just TWO inch slices.

-Cliff
 
hey all, how are the slices being performed, on a push or a draw? is the force being applied to the spine by the off hand, or just by the handle?
 
Rope that has picked up some moisture will offer less resistance to the cutting. Not wet rope, just some that was left in my open air smithy for a week or so. The rope needs to be kept under fairly stable conditions. Kept clean too. We've not found a great deal of difference in rope, perhaps enough to make a difference of 10-20% difference in the number of cuts.

I use slicing cuts that draw the length of edge being tested through the rope iin one slice. Pressure is applied by the handle. Cutting is done on a scale to a predetermined pressure where the edge loses it's bite, as stated earlier.

Wayne G
 
You can actually change the results push/draw by how you form the teeth on the blade as you can point them either way. I have done push and pull, force with hand on handle on draws, sometimes thumb on spine.

-Cliff
 
I have measured initial starting cuts on ropes, same brand, same store even, same day as rolls were brought in that were double in initial force done on a straight push cut.

The reason I tried different methods was to see what effect was made by the variations. As I noted, how you sharpen on the stone will effect if the blade is more aggressive on a pull or push so you need to note that as well.

-Cliff
 
How big a piece of rope was cut off with each cut?
1/4"?
1/2"?
More than an inch?
Less than 1/4"?

And, can this have a bearing on the results?
 
Cliff Stamp said:
I have done well over 2000 slices on 3/8" hemp with a D2 blade and it just reached 20 lbs. Going to thirty would have taken somewhere close to 10, 000. This was also when was doing the cuts on a hard backing media which was blunting the edge as much as the rope I found out later. So for free cutting rope, maybe 20, 000 and these were just TWO inch slices.

-Cliff
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Cliff,

Can you give me a link to this test result?

Thanks,

Carl
 
Ebbtide said:
How big a piece of rope was cut off with each cut?
1/4"?
1/2"?
More than an inch?
Less than 1/4"?

And, can this have a bearing on the results?
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We cut just enough to get a full slice on the whole diameter of the test rope.
I'd say somewhere betweeen 1/8" and 1/4". I don't see how the length cut off will affect the number of cuts.

The thing that seems to be getting lost in many of the comments here is that this is a comparison test between a knife of known value and a test blade.

Wayne
 
Wayne G. said:
We cut just enough to get a full slice on the whole diameter of the test rope.
I'd say somewhere betweeen 1/8" and 1/4". I don't see how the length cut off will affect the number of cuts.
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I'm going to guess that the thinking in relation to the length of the cut off piece, is that the rope will deform more, the closer to the end it is being cut. The more the rope spreads, the more edge is in contact with the rope when it actually bites.

Wayne G. said:
The thing that seems to be getting lost in many of the comments here is that this is a comparison test between a knife of known value and a test blade.
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Thanks Wayne, for bringing us back to this. :)
The point of my original comment about the rope conditions and the ambient conditions was to reinforce what you said. As impressive as a cut test is like the 2,771 one mentioned is (and it IS impressive), it is that much more impressive when there is a baseline to compare it to. Sure we can look up other tests performed at other times and places with different blades, but as we can see by all the questions about how Wayne or Phil do their cuts nobody really does it exactly the same way. By performing tests of two knives at the same time we don't have to wonder if the tests were actually comparable.
 
Wayne G. said:
We cut just enough to get a full slice on the whole diameter of the test rope.
I'd say somewhere betweeen 1/8" and 1/4". I don't see how the length cut off will affect the number of cuts.

The thing that seems to be getting lost in many of the comments here is that this is a comparison test between a knife of known value and a test blade.

Wayne
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Thank you Wayne.
I don't know if the size would matter either.
Just trying to understand & have a point of reference for future use.
And yes, I agree that the knife of known value is of great importance.
Otherwise it's apples and diesels ;)
 
kneedeep said:
As impressive as a cut test is like the 2,771 one mentioned is (and it IS impressive), it is that much more impressive when there is a baseline to compare it to.
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It isn't reasonable though to see Busse do this with other blades, it has to come from the others themselves once he sets a standard. Would you even believe it if Busse did tests on Cold Steel blades? He has clearly described and performed his method live, even had others participate at shows. There was nothing stopping another manufacturer from attemping the same test aside from a nonfavorable outcome. The fact that no one has done so is a fair statement about how impressive the results are regarding performance.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
It isn't reasonable though to see Busse do this with other blades, it has to come from the others themselves once he sets a standard. Would you even believe it if Busse did tests on Cold Steel blades? He has clearly described and performed his method live, even had others participate at shows. There was nothing stopping another manufacturer from attemping the same test aside from a nonfavorable outcome. The fact that no one has done so is a fair statement about how impressive the results are regarding performance.

-Cliff
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I haven't met Busse, but by most accounts I have read on these forums he seems like a pretty straight up, honest guy (and yes of course I understand he has a vested interest in promoting his knives). If he said he tested the Cold Steel knives exactly the same way as his knives, I would tend to believe him. The current reputation of his knives is so good, that doing anything other than testing other blades fairly would only serve to hurt him in the long run. You don't get the sort of loyalty and dedication to a brand like you see in the Busse forum, just from great knives, I'd suspect Jerry and his team also have something to do with it, so yes I'd believe him. And from the list of people that witnessed the test, if they said the test was done fairly, I'd believe them. Certainly this kind of trust doesn't belong in scientific testing, but this is also a community, and from what I've seen, (forgive me for being a noob) a pretty close one. Everyone seems to know everyone else, most seem to know who they can trust and have positive interactions with. If we want cold hard numbers, we can certainly run as many double-blind tests as necessary (assuming someone has the time and resources), but to the average person here I think that it is easier for them to relate to a test performed by a person they know (or at least know of).

In any case the whole point is that it is easier to relate to a test where Knife A did this many cuts, and Knife B did this many cuts in the same situation at the same time, than Knife A did this many cuts in this situation on this date, and Knife B did this many cuts in a different situation on a different date.

The 2,771 cuts are amazingly impressive, but to be honest, being a noob I don't have anything to compare it to stored away in my head. I'm just saying that I suspect I would be even more impressed if someone told me that the Busse did 2,771 cuts while the Brand B knife only did X number of cuts.
 
kneedeep said:
If he said he tested the Cold Steel knives exactly the same way as his knives, I would tend to believe him.
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Lynn Thompson probably would not and his lawyers might have something to say about it. I would agree that it would be much more informative if we had more numbers, but you are never going to see that from makers/manufacturers. It would need to come from independent users/source.

-Cliff
 
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