GEC...Please Make More Patterns Available To Us in 440C...yea or nea ?

M Murdamook it would be more productive to have a discussion on the issues rather than lean on personal attacks. From your last posts directed at me, my “folksy anecdotes”, doomsaying, arm-waving and ignorance of basic faulty argument techniques, I do not think that is possible with you.

Simply put, would increased production of stainless steel knives be beneficial or detrimental to Great Eastern Cutlery’s business? We can of course speculate and I should think differing opinions would be welcomed here.
 
M Murdamook it would be more productive to have a discussion on the issues rather than lean on personal attacks. From your last posts directed at me, my “folksy anecdotes”, doomsaying, arm-waving and ignorance of basic faulty argument techniques, I do not think that is possible with you.

Simply put, would increased production of stainless steel knives be beneficial or detrimental to Great Eastern Cutlery’s business? We can of course speculate and I should think differing opinions would be welcomed here.
You accused me of ad hominem, none of what I said is remotely ad hominem. I told you to re-examine your use of fallacious arguments if you’re going to rely on them for a counter. Calling you a doomsayer and mentioning arm-waving is hardly a personal attack. You have basically just repeated truisms about how business process alteration is risky. We get it, everyone understands this. It’s not a secret. However, making a few more copies of a knife in stainless isn’t exactly a process or plan alteration. The deviation is minor.

As for a difference of opinion: I’ve said nothing else to anyone about their opinion. I replied to you because you seem to think you can wield your opinion as though it were a cudgel and just outright dismiss the product desires of people like the OP. Have a difference of opinion, that’s great. What’s not great is replying with derision and dismissal which is what you chose to do in your initial post.
 
I'd like to see the discussion move away from the personal jabs. Take them offline, please. Thanks.
 
I use my pocketknife on food. Food has moisture. Moisture rusts 1095. Acidic food makes it worse. GEC makes a great knife with 440C, wish they used it all the time.

GEC99and15chestnut.jpg
Food is one of the biggest reasons why I long for a GEC stainless blade. Slicing up limes in the summer on the boat dictates I carry something else.
 
This appears as a thorny issue, for a long time people have been asking after more opportunities to buy stainless GECs. Various reasons emerge- too punitive on the ageing GEC machinery-might be true but the large volumes of knives in recent issues would also tax elderly equipment. Stainless knives are unpopular and hang around on dealers' shelves- must have had some credence in the past, but now? And perhaps the patterns weren't such popular ones? Speculating about the robustness of GEC's business model and by inference that stainless knives could compromise GEC's viabilty is futile, only those who run&own GEC know the actuality of their business model. It may be that they themselves simply don't like making stainless products, it's their company & they wish to guard certain principles.

However, there is a hunger for quality made stainless Traditionals, of that I am sure. Ask yourself why are most Customs stainless? Sheer vanity at wanting the latest fad steel or laziness over maintaining carbon? Evidently not. Like others, I don't always want to be wiping down a knife, oiling it etc particularly as I like to use pocket-knives on foods, do so frequently. Patina on carbon steel can look very attractive but it takes some doing&application, spotty blotchy patina is very unpleasant and just looks bad maintenance, carbon knives require constant use for them to be looking good. Put them away for a bit and even decent patina loses is hue/bloom, it can impart flavours too. Rust on blades is rare but rust inside the well is common and very annoying.

This is not a binary thing, most rational people don't adopt an either or attitude about carbons-stainless, most of us like both. Nearly all of us like GEC very much for what it has done almost single-handedly against the tide to raise the quality&desirability of Traditional production knives. Who of us are not really proud of some of our GECs both users and display knives? My most recent GEC the 62 arrived last week, astounded by the build quality-no compromises here-the pattern suits me but yes, I would prefer it in stainless as it is beautiful and elegant. Unless I carefully nurture the patina, clean it, oil it it won't look like this for long, it will be leaden looking and greasy unless I'm careful.

Some of the late Queen Cutlery's best made and most useable knives were its White & Amber Stagbone knives in D2, true they often came blunt and D2 is hard stuff but if you got a sharp one you got a knife that has GEC's DNA in it, literally due to the owners. Lionsteel makes a fantastically well made stainless/titanium knife as a contemporary Traditional, not everybody's taste-what could be? But the quality, materials and looks are there. So if as has been mooted, GEC could opt for a Premier Line doing limited runs of existing patterns x times a year using all stainless construction I'm certain they'd be a sell out (and not to traditions or quality;):D) Let's have a stainless equivalent of Northwoods, you can drop the Mammoth though;)

Thanks, Will
 
GEC 1095 folders currently outnumber GEC 440C folders on the big auction site over 100 to 1. Stainless GECs are getting rarer all the time, doesn't sound unpopular, more like unavailable.

I use my pocketknife on food. Food has moisture. Moisture rusts 1095. Acidic food makes it worse. GEC makes a great knife with 440C, wish they used it all the time.

GEC99and15chestnut.jpg

As usual, bang on target;):D:D
 
I come to BF to get away from current politics. The knife world even on the porch has the same politics. GEC has its policy and fame from sales and consistency in their products. They specialize in carbon. If you want stainless go elsewhere. (I go elsewhere for news)
 
I come to BF to get away from current politics. The knife world even on the porch has the same politics. GEC has its policy and fame from sales and consistency in their products. They specialize in carbon. If you want stainless go elsewhere. (I go elsewhere for news)

That might be valid IF GEC did not make stainless knives at all and we were demanding that they do. Right from its inception it comprised three marques: Tidioute, Northfield and Great Eastern the stainless arm.
 
Not following here...I state that GEC reportedly bought CNC machines and that they "modernized" which resulted, I believe, in increased production...isn't increasing production evidence that they addressed a bottleneck???

The CNC machines may not be making blades. That could address a bottleneck while not increasing their ability to machine more abrasive steels. And making super steel blades on a CNC machine takes longer than making 1095 blades, so if their sales are production limited, it might still be to their advantage to stick with 1095.
 
I suspect there is little upside sales potential for GEC to make more knives using 440C. Based on my dealer views, their sales may be slowing down from a dealer perspective, but it tends to be certain models (usually larger knives) or multi-blade knives.
 
- thank you. I know there are a lot of stainless steels out there with complex/involved heat treatment processes from my chats with Des Horn, but was hoping there may be some simpler ones more in line with their standard carbon steel.......perhaps not..!

I suspect that there are, and computer-controlled ovens are old hat. But there's a learning curve involved. If they're running flat out now and sell every piece they make the second it comes off the line, taking the time to dial in a new process for a new steel is money down the drain. If folks would just back off buying GECs for a while, I bet you'd see them start putting out some stainless. :) I think it's bound to happen eventually, we'll either get a recession or GEC will get far enough ahead of orders through incremental upgrades to have the time to mess with it. I'm really hoping for something better than 440C or D2. Yes, they're "more traditional". But if you can't tell by looking at it, what difference does that make?
 
CPM-154 is the steel I would love to see GEC start using on a limited basis. But if it is not marked with the steel type, nobody beyond collectors would even know.

The other side to this is that I like some steels more or less "reserved" to custom makers.
 
If I hear "business model" one more time I'm gonna bang my head against the wall. GEC can put stag on the side of a turd and it will sell. They can probably just make TC 15's and do fine. I don't like all of their patterns, but out of the many I do like, if they were offered in stainless for $30 more I would still buy every single one. I'd probably even buy more patterns I didn't like as much just because they're so well made.

I think patina is ok on some stuff, but when I see a pattern that just came out and someone posts a picture that looks like they just dug it up out of their backyard, that doesn't appeal to me. I think that's like people who buy pre-ripped jeans.

Basically, I don't think the employees at GEC will end up broke on the street if they offered more stainless...but that's just me.
 
Food is one of the biggest reasons why I long for a GEC stainless blade. Slicing up limes in the summer on the boat dictates I carry something else.

I don't mind using mine on food as I always clean the blade immediately and I only use one on food when I'm out hiking or it's inconvenient to use a knife better suited to the task. What gets me is sweat. When I sweat enough that my pockets get damp and salty, bad things happen to carbon steel. I've even managed to get rust spots on S30V and VG10. Stainless is apparently well named as it's not stainproof.
 
CPM-154 is the steel I would love to see GEC start using on a limited basis. But if it is not marked with the steel type, nobody beyond collectors would even know.

I think this would be a good choice. It's similar to 440C but made with modern methods. It's easy to sharpen, so it's likely fairly easy to grind. It was the only modern steel that Buck was able to stamp on the 2018 forum knife, another indicator that it's easier on machines than the super steels. Performance is good. It likely hits a sweet spot for cost vs performance.
 
I don't mind using mine on food as I always clean the blade immediately.
Yeah, clean it "immediately" and all's well.
I've found that creates a bit of stress when you just want to relax. I can often have a scenario where a lime hangs out on the cutting board with a knife next to it. If a friend opts for a slice while I'm having a swim or whatever, I come back to a "ugly situation."
A stainless blade makes more sense in that kind of environment. At least for me.
 
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