GEC...Please Make More Patterns Available To Us in 440C...yea or nea ?

rma100 said:
My comment was for knives in General. Not limited to Traditionals or even Pocket Knives. If you READ the comment, I state" Knives of ALL TYPES". And I spoke of Stainless Steel in General, not specifically High Performance Stainless. It easy to qualify or mis-quote a general statement down to something you can "beg to differ" with. There's A LOT of that at this Forum!
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The choices for Stainless Steel Knives in todays market are overwhelming, not only in Traditional Pocket Knives
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In what way did I misquote you? You said there were already a lot of choices for traditional knives with stainless steel blades.

But in this thread, we were talking about 440C in GEC knives. 440C has better performance than most stainless steels which are commonly available in traditional knives. AND we were talking about GEC, which is renowned for its superlative fit and finish.

I like traditional designs. I like 440C as a blade alloy. I would like to have more options for buying GEC 440C bladed knives.
 
knarfeng said:
In what way did I misquote you? You said there were already a lot of choices for traditional knives with stainless steel blades.

But in this thread, we were talking about 440C in GEC knives. 440C has better performance than most stainless steels which are commonly available in traditional knives. AND we were talking about GEC, which is renowned for its superlative fit and finish.

I like traditional designs. I like 440C as a blade alloy. I would like to have more options for buying GEC 440C bladed knives.
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That is not what I said at all! This is from my original post, which you HAVE misquoted. You misquoted me by omission and taking a partial statement out of context. "The choices for Stainless Steel Knives in todays market are overwhelming, not only in Traditional Pocket Knives, but knives of all types"
I'm done. Peace,OUT!
 
I would love to get one of those micarta 440c trappers ... must have been a limited run? Can't find any trace on the interwebs.
 
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I'm confused, rma100. Isn't this the Traditional sub forum, where we talk about traditional knives, not modern ones?
Isn't the title of this particular thread:
GEC...Please Make More Patterns Available To Us in 440C...yea or nea ?
I did READ your post about stainless metal selections vs. carbon specific ones, and I did READ Frank's first post, which you apparently felt he DELIBERATELY chose to chop up to suit his own personal agenda. I then READ the responses from both of you.
I'm sorry, but I don't see what the issue is that is making you so upset. Earlier on you stated your preference to not have knives from GEC made with 440C, which is fine and your right. Frank posted he would like to see some GEC's made with 440C. When someone else voices an opinion that they would like to see GEC knives in 440C, based on my interpretations of your posts here, you take exception to it.
Each of us is entitled to our own opinion, and that's what it is: our opinion. I accept your vote of nay with no bitterness or feelings you are wrong. Just like I would hope you accept my vote of yea to the lead question of this topic.
At the end of the day, GEC will decide whether to introduce more models in 440C. And if they do, as a dealer of GEC knives you will reap the rewards of this through sales.

John
 
Micarta isn't 100 yrs old.
In my mind, "traditional" is more about design than materials. I was thinking of stating something like "carbon fibre would probably never be seen on a traditional." But CF is only one step further than micarta.
Nobody has argued that SS isn't traditional, or micarta, & the custom makers honoured with a thread in this forum often use both.
A traditional design in space age materials is still a traditional, IMO.

I like traditional designs. I prefer good stainless to good 1095.
I think manufacturers used, & customers wanted, the best materials & workmanship they could afford. A century ago as much as now.
 
mtangent said:
Micarta isn't 100 yrs old.
In my mind, "traditional" is more about design than materials. I was thinking of stating something like "carbon fibre would probably never be seen on a traditional." But CF is only one step further than micarta.
Nobody has argued that SS isn't traditional, or micarta, & the custom makers honoured with a thread in this forum often use both.
A traditional design in space age materials is still a traditional, IMO.

I like traditional designs. I prefer good stainless to good 1095.
I think manufacturers used, & customers wanted, the best materials & workmanship they could afford. A century ago as much as now.
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Thanks for the well thought out, well presented, reasonable post. I for one appreciate a mature, measured discussion.
 
street soldier said:
I'm confused, rma100. Isn't this the Traditional sub forum, where we talk about traditional knives, not modern ones?
Isn't the title of this particular thread:
GEC...Please Make More Patterns Available To Us in 440C...yea or nea ?
I did READ your post about stainless metal selections vs. carbon specific ones, and I did READ Frank's first post, which you apparently felt he DELIBERATELY chose to chop up to suit his own personal agenda. I then READ the responses from both of you.
I'm sorry, but I don't see what the issue is that is making you so upset. Earlier on you stated your preference to not have knives from GEC made with 440C, which is fine and your right. Frank posted he would like to see some GEC's made with 440C. When someone else voices an opinion that they would like to see GEC knives in 440C, based on my interpretations of your posts here, you take exception to it.
Each of us is entitled to our own opinion, and that's what it is: our opinion. I accept your vote of nay with no bitterness or feelings you are wrong. Just like I would hope you accept my vote of yea to the lead question of this topic.
At the end of the day, GEC will decide whether to introduce more models in 440C. And if they do, as a dealer of GEC knives you will reap the rewards of this through sales.

John
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Give it a rest buddy! I simply said THAT I PERSONALLY PREFER CARBON STEEL! I never said that GEC should not make Stainless Steel Knives. I appreciate Franks opinion! Whats YOUR problem? He did misquote me. Why do my opinions lead to argument!
 
rma100 said:
Give it a rest buddy! I simply said THAT I PERSONALLY PREFER CARBON STEEL! I never said that GEC should not make Stainless Steel Knives. I appreciate Franks opinion! Whats YOUR problem? He did misquote me. Why do my opinions lead to argument!
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I imagine it has to do with your delivery. Instead of ! use :) goes further around here, so I have learned myself :thumbup:


On topic I would vote for more variety. Maybe a stainless stamp on the blades to free up more shields? Different handle materials would help as well as the Northfield treatment. I do not own any stainless GEC or traditional knives for that matter. When the day comes that I want to try some stainless on a traditional for edc having a bigger selection would be nice :)
 
Everyone take a deep breath and remember that this is supposed be fun.

Remember the third rule of posting in traditional:
3. Post friendly.
 
I think I understand where Mr. Andrews' concern is coming from. Unless GEC were to increase manufacturing capacity, then to add more SS offerings they would have to reduce the number of 1095 knives they made, thereby reducing the number of good 1095 knives in the market. So as long as it is a zero sum game, any "win" for the 440C fans is a relative loss for the 1095 fans.

That wasn't obvious from the actual text of his posts, but now they make perfect sense to me and I understand exactly why he is opposed to it. Sorry if my earlier question to you seemed like some form of attack, but I didn't understand what your reasoning was and was truly hoping to learn from you why it would seem to be a bad idea.

As a dealer you have much more visibility into their manufacturing capacity and backlog, so it was probably obvious to you but it took me a while to figure it out. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

I'd still like to see more 440C options but I no longer think you're crazy. :)
 
Obviously, we talk as customers, so we see things from our point of view. It would be very nice to hear the company's opinion here, but most likely we won't. Either way, although we can only speculate on their reasons, GEC's market strategy is quite easy to see. And (unfortunately) it's not moving towards more 440C knives, I guess.
My first GEC was a 440C #25, and I think they do a great job on it...and wish for more.
I can believe that producing more knives in 440C would mean producing less knives in 1095. Would that mean reducing their sales? If this subforum is a decent sample of their audience, I think not. It's not my call to make, of course; I'm just stating my own personal opinion based on what I read here. Even when GEC came out with their F&F line, it was the same: more knives in O1 and micarta meant less knives in 1095 and bone. Was it a good choice? Look around to see how many F&F knives are currently available, and it will be very easy to say that yes, it was a good choice: stag/bone lovers still got what they wanted, and so did micarta/O1 fans.
Again, I know I just have to accept the company's strategy, and buy less GEC knives, as other members here. Every company makes choices, and their choices mixed with the audience response determine success or failure. Yet, I don't think it's really fair to present GEC's market strategy as paladin of tradition for producing only a small percentage of their knives in 440C. They do a great job for traditional cutlery, and produce awesome knives, but offering more patterns in 440C wouldn't affect that, and at the same time it would widen a bit their audience, especially considering how good they work on 440C.
Also, we have to face another serious problem on stainless GEC knives...Trand buys half of them :D

Fausto
:cool:
 
great post! i totally agree. i would LOVE to see more SS options from GEC. i live in the humid nether regions of AL, so SS is just a better choice for a blade that i want to use all the time. i'm sure it's cost prohibitive to do all the patterns and scales and every permutation in between in SS, but at the very least i would love to see more acorns be released. i look for them, but they seem to be more rare and i usually can't find an acorn in the patterns i like. i do prefer the look and scales of their Northfield brand (GOD i'd love to have an acorn with pinched bolsters!), but i have to admit, the acorn shield is charmingly anachronistic. and SS option is too appealing to resist. i'm currently lusting over a pocket congress in elk horn. :welcoming:
 
i would love to see them slowly do acorns in all their patterns, even if the choose typical scales for that brand. but even if they don't listen to our feedback, i'm still going to buy their 1095 blades. lol. they're just too sexy. :)
 
roninelh said:
When I see a release of GEC in 440c, I pass right over it. The #48 acorn in the amber bone might be my first, I better try their 440c out and form my own opinion. I just hope I dont have a hard time sharpening it, I think those of us who suck at sharpening are affraid of stainless. GEC know what their bread and butter is, I dont think were ever gonna see many offerings in stainless...
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YES! vote with our wallets. that would be an instant buy for me. i don't even need to see the pattern. :D
 
While I think 440C is about as traditional as you can get for a stainless steel, and it's a very good one at 58-59 HRc, I'd still love to see at least a "once in a while" release of some GEC favorites in CPM-154 at 61-62 hardness. Put a couple of their finest cutlers on them, and think of them like GEC's version of the Case/Bose colabs.

Maybe Frank or one of the knifemakers who frequent us could give us an idea of the additional production costs of using CPM-154 over 440C. It's hard for me to imagine it could be more than a $50 upcharge, and I would gladly pay $200 for such a knife, once a year.
 
MerryMadMonk said:
Great discussion. If I worked for GEC, I'd definitely be subscribed to this thread :)
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This has been better than I had imagined it would go, and I do think that GEC must at least monitor this forum to some degree.

As to increased 440C production impacting overall flow of product, I wouldn't even guess on this having zero information, but if this were true i would probably not be infavor.
As a consumer seeing models already produced and available in this configuration, I can only wonder why certain patterns are offered and others not. Why a Toothpick and not a Powderhorn for example. The Furtaker Muscrat posted earlier definitely is on my watch list now though!
This has been fun and informative so far, in my mind at least...
 
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