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good old boys, Shiva Ki, & justice for all
- Thread starter G.R. (gord) Begg
- Start date
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- Oct 9, 2005
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- 54
Unedited quote from Shiva Ki, posted according to his request:
"Where does that guy get off making suggestions I am a thief?
That's really harsh for someone who has no imperical information, in fact, that's blatant slander. Must have eased the restrictions a lot since I got fired.
Now blatant slander is O.K. - telling the truth draws fire. And you guys ask why I do not care to come back. No thanks.
shiva
"Where does that guy get off making suggestions I am a thief?
That's really harsh for someone who has no imperical information, in fact, that's blatant slander. Must have eased the restrictions a lot since I got fired.
Now blatant slander is O.K. - telling the truth draws fire. And you guys ask why I do not care to come back. No thanks.
shiva
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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- Oct 9, 1998
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- 76,012
Did someone suggest he is a thief?
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No, someone said that Mr. Ki had NOT been called dishonest AND was generally thought to make quality knives.
But, hey, Mr. Ki, throw up your straw men so some can get all worked up.
But, hey, Mr. Ki, throw up your straw men so some can get all worked up.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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- Apr 6, 2000
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- 90,915
Exactly. Just like The Master's original appearance, his acolytes are also here for one purpose, supposedly to defend him, but serve another: to entertain us. 
leatherbird said:
I tend to agree with you.
But that is one giant-sized "if". If he was called a thief, I sure missed it. And I might have missed it. Or it might be that Shiva is so intent on seeing himself as the victim that he is now seeing things.
Roger
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Nowhere on here was Shiva Ki called a theif. Wonder where he heard that 
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I have never seen it posted that Shiva Ki was dishonest. There has never been anything that I know of that would point to any dishonesty on his part. G.R., could you please direct us to the post where Shiva Ki was called dishonest?
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No, nobody called Shiva Ki a thief. However, I will call him a DRAMA QUEEN.G.R. (gord) Begg said:
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People tend to perceive what they expect to perceive, objective reality aside. As in, "My "enemy" will say bad things about me and no good things."
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Shiva is not a member, so he can not read these posts, can he? If this is the case, Gord is passing along what is said here. Shiva Ki may be replying to misinformation (the theif thing)
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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- 76,012
You have to be a member to read some forums here, but not this one. We think it's important to keep TGB&U accessible to all.
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Doug, though you do defend Shiva Ki tooth and nail, I don't consider you to be one of his lackeys. If people were going after one of my favorite makers I would be the same way.
- Joined
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- 20,207
Doug, a "straw man" in standard usage, is an supposed argument, opinion, or statement of claimed fact mentioned solely because it is easy to shoot down -- which the person mentioning it proceeds to do.
A "straw man" is advanced without regard to whether the "other side" made that arguement, stated that opinion, or claimed that fact because, again, the objective is to have an argument to crush.
Example: "If we had staked our national existence on Lyndon Johnson's naive and crazy trust of the Commies, we would all be dead or enslaved." [But he didn't.]
Example: "Someone called call Master Ki a crook? He is as honest as the day is long" (testimonials of honesty follow.) [But no one did call him dishonest or a crook.]
Example: "Someone said that Master Ki makes inferior knives? The quality of his knives is of the highest" (testimonials of quality of knives follow.) [But no one did attack the quality of his knives.]
"Straw men" arguments often rely on the "Dopeler Effect": the faster a stream of irrational arguments is directed at the listener(s), the more likely they will be mistaken for rationality. Politicians are especially good at this tactic.
The expression does not, in any way refer to ANY person, living, dead, or other.
("The Strawman" might be taken to refer to a character in the Wizard of OZ, which is somewhat OT.)
In the alternative, the crediting of fictional attacks on Mr. Ki may result from one imagining that anyone who is his "enemy" must surely be saying those things. So a rumor to that effect that a mythical attack has been made is accepted, and reacted to, with no effort at confirmation. The rumor fits the preconception.
A "straw man" is advanced without regard to whether the "other side" made that arguement, stated that opinion, or claimed that fact because, again, the objective is to have an argument to crush.
Example: "If we had staked our national existence on Lyndon Johnson's naive and crazy trust of the Commies, we would all be dead or enslaved." [But he didn't.]
Example: "Someone called call Master Ki a crook? He is as honest as the day is long" (testimonials of honesty follow.) [But no one did call him dishonest or a crook.]
Example: "Someone said that Master Ki makes inferior knives? The quality of his knives is of the highest" (testimonials of quality of knives follow.) [But no one did attack the quality of his knives.]
"Straw men" arguments often rely on the "Dopeler Effect": the faster a stream of irrational arguments is directed at the listener(s), the more likely they will be mistaken for rationality. Politicians are especially good at this tactic.
The expression does not, in any way refer to ANY person, living, dead, or other.
("The Strawman" might be taken to refer to a character in the Wizard of OZ, which is somewhat OT.)
In the alternative, the crediting of fictional attacks on Mr. Ki may result from one imagining that anyone who is his "enemy" must surely be saying those things. So a rumor to that effect that a mythical attack has been made is accepted, and reacted to, with no effort at confirmation. The rumor fits the preconception.
- Joined
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- 26,713
As far as Shiva, what he did was wrong and it is over and forgiven. If he wants to come back, he is more than welcome to do so as long as he follows the rules. Like it or not that is a fact. We have done it for others known and unknown. I took no joy in banning a maker with tallent and decades of experience, but it had to be done.
Old man and Begg, Please read the above again. That position has not changed since the banning.
To boil it down for you two.
It means two things.
1. He can come back if he wants to follow the rules.
2 If he wants to come back, he can defend himself if he wishes.
(Not sure how he should defend himself against what he did since he clearly broke the rules. I think it would be better to just say he will not do it again and go from there.)
Looking for a bottom line to this stupidity:
Use some simple logic rather than come in here with the not so bright idea that Shiva should not have to stick to our rules that others stick to or that he has been wronged becuase he can not defend himself (what is there to defend, he brooke the rules and was banned) ... I will leave it up to the reader to decide for themself if the agenda you are sticking to is a wise one.
As far as what we should do about these threads and the negativity. Sorry that is what this forum is for. If I see something I know to be untrue that is one thing, but I have not seen it yet and am more than open to anyone who will point it out. I do not see the problem with negative posts towards what I think to be an illogical agenda and/or behavior which is not fair to the members here. The GB&U forum here is here to handle the discussion of those types of things, customer service and knives too.
Just a dumb move as far as I am concerned and what is dumber is continuing it rather than owning up, changing the behavior here and letting it blow over and actually joining one of the largest if not the largest knife communities on the net.
Shiva, Old man and Begg ... your move. Continue (providing a bunch of entertainment and no real logic to substantite your silliness was well as adding to the attention and negativity that has been created by each of you and your behavior here), walk away or enjoy what many consider the benefits of this place.
Back to the regularly scheduled foolishness regarding this soap-opra.
Old man and Begg, Please read the above again. That position has not changed since the banning.
To boil it down for you two.
It means two things.
1. He can come back if he wants to follow the rules.
2 If he wants to come back, he can defend himself if he wishes.
(Not sure how he should defend himself against what he did since he clearly broke the rules. I think it would be better to just say he will not do it again and go from there.)
Looking for a bottom line to this stupidity:
Use some simple logic rather than come in here with the not so bright idea that Shiva should not have to stick to our rules that others stick to or that he has been wronged becuase he can not defend himself (what is there to defend, he brooke the rules and was banned) ... I will leave it up to the reader to decide for themself if the agenda you are sticking to is a wise one.
As far as what we should do about these threads and the negativity. Sorry that is what this forum is for. If I see something I know to be untrue that is one thing, but I have not seen it yet and am more than open to anyone who will point it out. I do not see the problem with negative posts towards what I think to be an illogical agenda and/or behavior which is not fair to the members here. The GB&U forum here is here to handle the discussion of those types of things, customer service and knives too.
Just a dumb move as far as I am concerned and what is dumber is continuing it rather than owning up, changing the behavior here and letting it blow over and actually joining one of the largest if not the largest knife communities on the net.
Shiva, Old man and Begg ... your move. Continue (providing a bunch of entertainment and no real logic to substantite your silliness was well as adding to the attention and negativity that has been created by each of you and your behavior here), walk away or enjoy what many consider the benefits of this place.
Back to the regularly scheduled foolishness regarding this soap-opra.