Guardians of The Lambsfoot!

[Jack Black]

Lambsfoot or No?
View attachment 1943681

I don't think so

 

[JohnDF]

Lambsfoot or No?

I thought It looked like a Lambsfoot to me.

 

[JohnDF]

I don't think so

Hmmm... Perhaps because the spine isn't perfectly flat?

 

[Jack Black]

It looks like a Lambsfoot to me.

Maybe it's the angle, but it looks more like a Wharncliffe to me

 

[JohnDF]

Maybe it's the angle, but it looks more like a Wharncliffe to me

I will defer to your expertise.

 

[Jack Black]

I will defer to your expertise.

I might have Covid-addled eyesight! Here's a pic from John's forum, certainly a beautiful little knife, but I don't think it's a Lambsfoot. What we need is a proper pic, with the blade flat, directly from above

It's hard to tell but the shine towards the tip is the swedge, not the top of the spine. Handsome little grind so far.
View attachment 1938202

 

[Redmeadow Knives]

Too mu

I might have Covid-addled eyesight! Here's a pic from John's forum, certainly a beautiful little knife, but I don't think it's a Lambsfoot. What we need is a proper pic, with the blade flat, directly from above

I'll try to get a better shot from above. Too gentle of a curve dropping towards the tip? Maybe more of a defined drop to the tip is needed.

 

[Jack Black]

I'll try to get a better shot from above. Too gentle of a curve dropping towards the tip? Maybe more of a defined drop to the tip is needed.

Thanks John, very interesting project The spine should slope down (in relation to the edge), and then drop more abruptly to the point I think. Unfortunately, I have Covid, and am about to hit the hay here

 

[Redmeadow Knives]

Thanks John, very interesting project The spine should slope down (in relation to the edge), and then drop more abruptly to the point I think. Unfortunately, I have Covid, and am about to hit the hay here

Gotcha, I think the height of the overall blade being taller might be giving me the issue as has to taper down more. I could resolve it I think by shortening everything but might run into a handle that's too short for comfort. I'll keep at it, I appreciate your guys feedback.

Here's a picture with a better silhouette of the blade without angles.

 

[Jack Black]

Gotcha, I think the height of the overall blade being taller might be giving me the issue as has to taper down more. I could resolve it I think by shortening everything but might run into a handle that's too short for comfort. I'll keep at it, I appreciate your guys feedback.

Here's a picture with a better silhouette of the blade without angles.
View attachment 1943709

Thanks John, that's better, I can see the taper now That looks good

 

[Redmeadow Knives]

Thanks John, that's better, I can see the taper now That looks good

Thanks Jack, a bit of an abomination of a classic design but might pay a little homage.

 

[sf fanatic]

Thanks John, that's better, I can see the taper now That looks good

Being a neophyte in the subject I’m curious Jack. Have there been fixed blade lambsfoot knives made by the traditional manufacturers? In the meantime rest up and get well!

 

[bigfish64]

ACHOOO! Excellent!

Thanks Harvey.

Good Morning Guardians

Absolutely beautiful photo and knife.

Thanks Todd, apparently it isn't just me. I've got mate who's a mental health worker, and has to do a lot of tests, and he was saying that the pipettes, previously amply filled, have had so little liquid in them recently, that folks can't do the tests

Inexcusable.

Hope not! Great pic Todd

Thanks Jack.

Excellent phot, my friend.

Thanks John.

 

[cudgee]

Have there been fixed blade lambsfoot knives made by the traditional manufacturers

I had one on order with a custom knife maker, unfortunately Covid put an end to that. It was no ones fault just circumstances but would have been a fantastic utility and work knife.

 

[sf fanatic]

I had one on order with a custom knife maker, unfortunately Covid put an end to that. It was no ones fault just circumstances but would have been a fantastic utility and work knife.

Thanks Leon! Are you still going to have one made?

 

[sf fanatic]

went with the little black sheep today.
View attachment 1943823

 

[cudgee]

Are you still going to have one made?

No, unfortunately with the cost blow out of materials, the Aussie Dollar doesn't help, it would just be too expensive.

 

[Modoc ED]

went with the little black sheep today.
View attachment 1943823

That's a nice one. It's getting harder to find one in ebony these days. Is that from a dealer?

 

[cigarrodog]

The subtle lines of a beautifully executed Lambsfoot pattern.

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I have posted these pictures in that other thread, but I think they should be here too, to join all the wonderful knives and stories developing!
Great Idea, Jack, to reprise the Lambsfoot's Tale!!

The upper knife barely tapers, but I think it is fair to call it a Lambs-as-opposed-to-Sheep-foot!
Top half of the same group:

Bottom half:

The origins and naming of the lambsfoot pattern seem like a bit of an enigma.

There's certainly quite a depth and breadth of collective knowledge here on the Porch. There's also a lot of folk who have a very good experience and understanding in using knives extensively, both in their work and recreational crafts.

So it's interesting that in trying to answer the question of how the pattern originated; why it has the name it does; and why is it that it never took off as a popular style in the US, that we have so few facts to go on.

We have had quite a bit of informed speculation and discussion which has been illuminating, but not a lot of hard information has been unearthed yet.

Without tracking over old ground in terms of the good points that have already been made, there are a couple of things I haven't really seen mentioned in this and the other Lambsfoot threads.

View attachment 738705

Looking at the blade shape what do we we have? A straight edge with tapering, non parallel spine narrowing towards the tip - but still with a recognisable 'beak' to it, maybe part way between a sheepsfoot and the long pointed, Wharncliffe tip silhouette.

But all these blade styles definitely seem to exist on a similar continuum.

Consider that the sheepfoot is definitely an old, old blade shape, going back to the Iron Age, at least, and that due to its usefulness, it's probably a common enough working knife pattern wherever it has historical roots.

I think it's not beyond the realms of possibility that people first became familiar with the benefits of that narrower, tapered blade shape - long before the 19th century 'Real Lambsfoot' - simply from those knives which were well worn and sharpened enough over the years that they took on that slightly different profile.

Here's a broken back Anglo-Saxon seax as an example, maybe a thousand years old.

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And here's a knife attributed to the 1600s (top) and a modern Ken Gahagan copy (bottom).

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We've all seen those well loved knives that have been sharpened almost to toothpicks. Charlie C made the astute comment once that all blades want to be speys. Well, all sheepsfoots will also become lambsfoots (for a time, anyway). Even on the 1600s knife above, you can see with sharpening, that it is starting the slow progression to become a lambsfoot profile.

I can imagine that sometimes these worn, narrower blades lying around the home, farm or workshop would have been the ones selected for use in particular tasks requiring the power of a straight edge, fine tip control and good, safe visual indexing of where the point was.

One of these tasks would have been working with smaller livestock like sheep and particularly, lambs.

I actually did a bit of reading up on some government livestock advisory websites and was surprised to read that even now apparently, around a tenth of the UK sheep herd at any one time supposedly have footrot or 'scald'.

If these figures were paralleled wherever else sheep were run, that would amount to a lot of hoof trimming, to say nothing of the other lamb marking tasks required.

Sorry if you're squeamish, but here's a visual reference of the task that would have presented many a shepherd, drover and farmer. (It's apparently of an overtrimmed hoof, but it's the least icky example I could find, and it serves its purpose.)

View attachment 741511

Now that's an adult sheep hoof, imagine how much more fit for purpose a Real Lambsfoot would be for trimming a much smaller real lamb's foot. (Sorry, couldn't resist it.)

Early Australian knife and tool catalogues and ads from the mid-19th century and earlier, rarely specify knife types beyond 'pocket, pen, sports and ladies knives.'

Later ones start to equate particular knife patterns with the jobs they might be suited to or specifically designed for.

You may have noticed the description on the Baker Lambsfoot above.

Here's some other task specific tools (from the 1939 William Jno. Baker catalogue) featuring both recognisable Lambsfoot type blade profiles (with slight blade taper out to the tip) and more of an Ettrick/'Peach Pruner' style blade shape.

View attachment 741494

Some earlier 1924 catalogue examples. (From the above, it seems the Ettrick type blade later became the most popular shape.)

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And an expanded pic of one Jack posted earlier.

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So, as far as the theory that the lambsfoot did not gain popularity in the US because the prevalence of hunting and skinning tasks for the common person, necessitated a bellied drop point or clip blade, I think that's spot on.

The same thing applied in Australia, where the Bunny knife among others was king. But the fact that Lambsfoot knives have their established niche in Australia is not only because of the colonial trade ties to Britain (which is also probably why they turn up from time to time in Canada) but that they were marketed as a task oriented pattern related to sheep farming.

I also think that the Sheepsfoot gained popularity over the Lambsfoot, because most thrifty country folk in the US, Australia and Britain, when faced with a choice between either pattern would choose 'the one that has more steel in the blade, because it'll last longer'.

So, this has been a long post, and if you've read this far, I guess you, like myself also enjoy a good session of Porch debate and conjecture - which, whether you agree or disagree, I hope this may stimulate. I hope I haven't strayed too far from the original intent of the thread.

What do you think?

One other thing I've been curious about, and for which I have no answer, is, were the 'Real Lambfoot' etched blades from a single source? I know I've seen them on different makers' knives, but they still may have bought the blades from the same place.

Another theory I had, is the Lambsfoot may have been a pattern introduced to compete with the Wharncliffe, which I'm guessing may have been a regional variant adapted and popularised by Joseph Rodgers. Reading between the lines, I had always assumed the naming of that pattern had something to do with a gesture to the Earl of Wharncliffe for laying the ground for Joseph Rodgers to obtain their Royal Warrant perhaps?

But, I guess that's fodder for another thread...

Thank you for a most fascinating and scholarly post Chin, wonderfully presented, and very enjoyable to read. You make some excellent points, a really great analysis. Your Australian perspective has also been an added bonus to the previous discussions we've had I think. Well researched sir



That's a very good point. I also think the Lambsfoot may not have been marketed in the US, or to a much lesser extent, because there was a clear demand for other blade styles, and because it came along later, and when eventually (after the introduction of the McKinley Tariff) some Sheffield cutlery firms switched their attention from the US to Australia. I have certainly not seen any examples in any of the old US trade catalogues I've seen.



One firm must have started the pattern, but as with other patterns, it seems to have been taken up quite quickly by other firms and cutlers. Taylor's Eye Witness (Needham, Veall, and Tyzack) have always produced a lot of Lambsfoot knives, and their catalogue inclusions of it are the earliest I've been able to find so far, but I think there's still a lot of research to be done there. The blades would have been hand-forged though, and I don't think they could have come from the same place.



Another interesting theory my friend You're quite correct about the origins of the Wharncliffe Knife. As I'm sure you know, that blade shape is considerably older than the knife, and it was used by Joseph Rodgers on their Norfolk Knife, which pre-dates the Wharncliffe, and which they continued to market and sell at the same time (see pics below from the same Rodgers catalogue). Other companies made Wharncliffe Knives, and many used the blade, which has only relatively recently become known as the Wharncliffe blade. Personally, I doubt the 'Real Lambfoot' was introduced to compete with the Wharncliffe.

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I would love a fixed blade with a “Real” Lambfoot blade.


edit: Open each attachment to get to the good stuff.

 

[echoscout]

Evening Guardians. Had a little chili and a chuck wagon bullet for supper.