"Hard Use" knives?

[philwar]

I'm interested in what it is that people are "needing" hard-use folders for, beyond looking cool (which I already said was a valid enough reason...just be honest about it).

But you're NOT really interested, because when people tell you why you dismiss them.
I agree that a Strider looks cool, but so does my Police 3. I recently got a BM 710, man is that a cool (and cool-looking) knife. Looks are important in all my knives (to varying degrees) but it's not just the tough ones who look cool to me.

My reason for wanting an XM-18 or similar is BECAUSE the tip won't break, BECAUSE I can pry with it, even chop a little, stab HARD, etc. Stuff I won't trust a Tenacious or a Blur with.

I like extra capacities in things I buy. I like a waterproof cellphone. I like 4-wheel drive cars, etc, etc. Doesn't mean I'll always use it, but it's good to know it's there.
I hope that explains it. :thumbup:

 

[marthinus]

Personally I feel there is a difference between hard cutting and hard use.

Hard cutting: Using my knife to cut irrigation piping, a tire, cleaning of branches....everything short of batoning and prying with a knife

Hard use for me is bordering on abuse for a knife: batoning, prying.

I would rather preferably use another tool in a hard use situation before a knife. (thought this luxury is not always available for people in the Sandbox so I can understand them using a knife for more then a knife)

That is my interpretation. Everyone else might disagree as its all up to the individual when it comes to defining hard use. There is no numeric equivalent that tells you you are doing hard use like a speedometer confirming you are speeding. So you are left to your own judgment.

 

[stabman]

But you're NOT really interested, because when people tell you why you dismiss them.

No I don't; this is you projecting onto me for whatever reason.
People (other than perhaps two) HAVEN'T told me why they "need" them.
SOME have told me why they WANT them, which is entirely different (and entirely okay:thumbup.
If you (or I) want to buy a "hard use" folder, go for it; I have many times.
But I don't buy it that there are legions of people who NEED them. If there were, they'd be sharing their stories of using them hard, rather than testing them hard.
Use is generally a necessary thing, whereas testing is not, unless you are the manufacturer, or a paid tester.

 

[EnduringEagle]

+1 on this.

 

[stabman]

There must be a bunch, cause it keeps getting brought up as a defense for starting threads that bash strider's, cold steel etc.

This ain't one of those threads, so why bring it up?
I am NOT bashing Striders (I have two) or Cold Steel (I only have two of them, neither folders).
I AM asking for people to SHARE WHY THEY NEED A HARD USE FOLDER, as a point of interest, and thus far, almost no one has. It just becomes the same old "You just don't get it, blah blah blah...", or some variation thereof.
This isn't a university level dissertation, so guess what? I've decided that I WON'T find specific examples of the thin knife bashing folks; that's right, if you care to find out, it's a reading assignment.
Because frankly my dears, I don't care enough.

HOWEVER, if anyone cares to share their stories of ACTUALLY USING THEIR HARD USE KNIVES IN REAL LIFE FOR ACTUAL USE RATHER THAN TORTURE TESTING FOR LAUGHS, this IS a thread to do so in.

 

[Ankerson]

No I don't; this is you projecting onto me for whatever reason.
People (other than perhaps two) HAVEN'T told me why they "need" them.
SOME have told me why they WANT them, which is entirely different (and entirely okay:thumbup.
If you (or I) want to buy a "hard use" folder, go for it; I have many times.
But I don't buy it that there are legions of people who NEED them. If there were, they'd be sharing their stories of using them hard, rather than testing them hard.
Use is generally a necessary thing, whereas testing is not, unless you are the manufacturer, or a paid tester.

I just use mine and never even really think about them.

It would be rather boring to talk about it.

 

[Kaizen1]

If I get bored enough later.
But if you look in some of the hard-use testing threads, you'll see something at least approacing what I'm talking about.

All of the posts that may be construed as negative toward thinner or non-hard-use knives have been in response to initial provocative posts toward people that prefer non-hard-use knives. People saw Ankerson doing certain actions with his folders and started ragging on him for doing them. In the past week or so, there have been 3 threads started that essentially attracted people to go into those threads and bash on people who like hard-use and locking knives.

 

[stabman]

I just use mine and never even really think about them.

Fair enough.
All I'm asking is for a listing of some of the tasks which you have carried out which would have been impossible or unsafe with a light to medium duty folder.
Seriously, that is the sort of thing I'm looking for; specific instances of use, rather than a philosophy of hard use knives, or a pissing match.:thumbup:

 

[USMCBombBoy]

...did somebody say "hard use"?.....

....I think it might qualify....

 

[stabman]

...did somebody say "hard use"?.....

....I think it might qualify....

What kind of knife did you use?

 

[Sep]

We can discuss this forever and not get an agreement, unless we start bringing numbers in. Hard use can be defined as:
- Pounds of weight needed to make the lock fail toward the cutting edge
- Pounds of weight needed to make the lock fail toward the spine
- Pounds of weight needed to make the lock fail toward the side (for frame/liner lock, distinguish between locking side & non-locking side)
- Pounds of weight needed to break the tip when clamped at 1/4"
- Pounds-feet of torque needed to make the lock fail
- etc.

Cold Steel has demonstrated the strength of their locks by loading the knife with several hundred pounds of weight. This is the route we should take to determine "hard use".

 

[USMCBombBoy]

Had a LanCay M-11 for stuff like that, but also carried a Strider SnG as well for rice bags/car interiors/etc..... I got the SnG after having problems with Benchmades (broken tips/chipped edges/failure to open). The blade thickness on the Strider folders was a definite plus in my line of work.

 

[mjolnir74]

I have used a cqc8 to do a lot of work at my deercamp that made my slipjoints loose and dull quickly. I used it to cut through mud encrusted rope. Cut the doorframe loose on a shooting house, a little prying. Things like that. Can a smaller knife do those things, yes. Then you can go buy a new one when you're done cause you f$@"ed it up. I don't carry a toolbox with me everywhere like some people here must.

 

[stabman]

I have used a cqc8 to do a lot of work at my deercamp that made my slipjoints loose and dull quickly. I used it to cut through mud encrusted rope. Cut the doorframe loose on a shooting house, a little prying. Things like that. Can a smaller knife do those things, yes. Then you can go buy a new one when you're done cause you f$@"ed it up. I don't carry a toolbox with me everywhere like some people here must.

But IS a CQC-8 REALLY a "hard use" knife, just because th advertising calls it one?
The lock isn't the strongest.
I GUARANTEE that that the tip on my SmF would last longer than the CQC-8.
I think the guy a few posts back is right who said we need a definition for "hard use" before we can get a meaningful idea here.

 

[stabman]

Had a LanCay M-11 for stuff like that, but also carried a Strider SnG as well for rice bags/car interiors/etc..... I got the SnG after having problems with Benchmades (broken tips/chipped edges/failure to open). The blade thickness on the Strider folders was a definite plus in my line of work.

Sounds like you picked the tool you needed then.:thumbup:
See, this is what I'm looking for; examples of when you needed a particular type of knife.
Heck, give your examples when you needed a thin blade rather than a thick one! Why not?

 

[EnduringEagle]

This ain't one of those threads, so why bring it up?
I am NOT bashing Striders (I have two) or Cold Steel (I only have two of them, neither folders).
I AM asking for people to SHARE WHY THEY NEED A HARD USE FOLDER, as a point of interest, and thus far, almost no one has. It just becomes the same old "You just don't get it, blah blah blah...", or some variation thereof.
This isn't a university level dissertation, so guess what? I've decided that I WON'T find specific examples of the thin knife bashing folks; that's right, if you care to find out, it's a reading assignment.
Because frankly my dears, I don't care enough.

HOWEVER, if anyone cares to share their stories of ACTUALLY USING THEIR HARD USE KNIVES IN REAL LIFE FOR ACTUAL USE RATHER THAN TORTURE TESTING FOR LAUGHS, this IS a thread to do so in.

Just my $.02. I think that this question is fair. What people are reacting to is that they now have to justify their purchase. I will tell you that I have not needed a heavy use knife day to day since I was in the Military. There I used it a lot for many activities and for some uses that I would still like to forget.
Many of us work in office settings and by definition we don't need a heavy use knife (folder or not) unless you work in facilities or perhaps the mail room. In fact many companies will fire you if you have a knife good, bad or indifferent. My father had a school supply business that required cutting boxes, string, wire and many other things. He did it for 25 years with a Buck 110 and I don't need that kind of firepower day to day but I choose to carry a better knife. Operative word: choose. That being said I'm heading up the Smokey's next month and I am taking a TOPS Smoke Jumper and CSAR-T with me. Hard use will occur there but the Smoke Jumper will be doing all the hard work. The CSAR-T is for everything else.

Knives are considered to be tools. Part of the problem as discussed is that there are no clear metrics on how knives will perform. You can get good metrics for cars, power drills, etc to make a decision but not with knives. In fact most knives are not bought because of performance but rather out of fashion or emotion and many out of an influx of testosterone. That is one of the reasons why many successful knives are discontinued and why there aren't simply 12 knives on the market to handle all the requirements. Marketing, Marketing, Marketing.

So to answer your question in a long winded way, No I actually don't use my folder for "heavy" use. I also don't use it for "tactical" use (which is a somewhat amusing term after using a KaBar in the Military), nor do I want to. No one wins in a knife fight. It is just levels of losing and very permanently ugly levels of losing. Sorry for the diatribe but this has always been a sore point for me as most people have no clue why they buy a knife and what to do with it. Please know that I am certainly not looking to insult anyone. I am just using my 1st amendment rights to support my 2nd amendment rights.

 

[stabman]

Knives are considered to be tools. Part of the problem as discussed is that there are no clear metrics on how knives will perform. You can get good metrics for cars, power drills, etc to make a decision but not with knives. In fact most knives are not bought because of performance but rather out of fashion or emotion and many out of an influx of testosterone. That is one of the reasons why many successful knives are discontinued and why there aren't simply 12 knives on the market to handle all the requirements. Marketing, Marketing, Marketing.

This is a good point.

 

[marthinus]

Had a LanCay M-11 for stuff like that, but also carried a Strider SnG as well for rice bags/car interiors/etc..... I got the SnG after having problems with Benchmades (broken tips/chipped edges/failure to open). The blade thickness on the Strider folders was a definite plus in my line of work.

Was that automatics you used? BTW. Thanks for your service!

His post reminded me of some others who serve and use their knives in that environment:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=685111

 

[cziv]

I like big bad-a** folders Hinderer, Strider, Demko - cuz I like 'em. Hell even a CS Recon -1 will work but my Rajah 1 will do better. You never know when you'll have to go Navy Seal on a ballistic gel assailant - and I want to survive and have my folder looking cool while doing it...

Who posted that to baton through a small section of a limb with a hard use folder was dumb (or something like that). My Rajah 1 will make one fall in 2 peices from fear man.

What's that Ordinance Disposal soldier using is that a Spyderco in his hand?

 

[stabman]

Who posted that to baton through a small section of a limb with a hard use folder was dumb (or something like that). My Rajah 1 will make one fall in 2 peices from fear man.

I wouldn't carry a Rajah 1, but I want one for yardwork! That thing would be fun for that.