Hawk-lock versus Axis-lock

ibute21 said:
Oh definitely, the RAM is the smoothest opening production knife I have ever owned. If you disengage the lock and just flip it open or shut, it just glides into place. And on top of that it has ridiculously fast opening, I dare say its faster than most of the autos I have handled. It also opens faster than my BM 580 and that is an amazing fast assisted opener.
Click to expand...

It's faster than my Offset and that has TWO assisted opening springs in it.
 
Dorito Monk said:
I highly doubt that. I had two omega springs break within just over a month of EDCing my 520 Presidio - in my experience, those omega springs are about as solid as a soup sandwich.

Honestly I found the axis to be a really overrated lock. It has die-hard fans, but I just haven't had a good experience with it. I've only owned one (520 Presidio) and I don't plan on owning a second... It seemed strong, yes, but had to be cleaned constantly because it would get gummed up by pocket lint, sand, whatever. In the short time I EDC'd it (a little over 1 month) and used it hard for some home renovations, I had both omega springs break, one after the other. It had lots of up-and down blade play straight from the box that couldn't be fixed (which I also found in other examples of axis lock knives when I handled a few at Bass Pro shops, including another Presidio and a couple Bone Collectors), and wasn't any smoother to open than most other knives I've owned. In fact it was a lot grittier than the CBBL on the Manix-2, was much more prone to fouling, and didn't seem any stronger.
Click to expand...
This i so 100% the opposite to my experience, that i would believe, the issues are caused by the user or the whole story is not true.

This is absolutely no offense to you! It is just to make clear, how your words apear to me.:)

Interesting, that you have had that things happen. I use axis since 2003 and never had any problems with the omegas.

I never had any problems with dirt or debris or pocket lint. I never had since i can clip pocket knives onto the seam. I have taken the knives apart and found little to nothing in the slot for the springs, after one or two years. Debris was kept up, so you can easily blow it away (as i was using a 110 - type of folder, a blow out of debris off the blade tang was the first i did, any time, i mean any time, i get the knife out of the pocket. Do we know, what we are talking about?)

The axis itself will not take much debris, maybe except the pocket has become a sand box.:D Thats caused by the user.:)

I use the 520 as my favorite axis folder. I can imagine, what is meant by blade play. But this can be solved easily by tightning the pivot. Nothing exotic, nothing new. Unbelievable, you can´t have solved that. Unbelievable you have found others like that, one for the next. None, that i get, was that way. None.

100% the opposite to my experience.
 
Blop said:
This i so 100% the opposite to my experience, that i would believe, the issues are caused by the user or the whole story is not true.

This is absolutely no offense to you! It is just to make clear, how your words apear to me.:)

Interesting, that you have had that things happen. I use axis since 2003 and never had any problems with the omegas.

I never had any problems with dirt or debris or pocket lint. I never had since i can clip pocket knives onto the seam. I have taken the knives apart and found little to nothing in the slot for the springs, after one or two years. Debris was kept up, so you can easily blow it away (as i was using a 110 - type of folder, a blow out of debris off the blade tang was the first i did, any time, i mean any time, i get the knife out of the pocket. Do we know, what we are talking about?)

The axis itself will not take much debris, maybe except the pocket has become a sand box.:D Thats caused by the user.:)

I use the 520 as my favorite axis folder. I can imagine, what is meant by blade play. But this can be solved easily by tightning the pivot. Nothing exotic, nothing new. Unbelievable, you can´t have solved that. Unbelievable you have found others like that, one for the next. None, that i get, was that way. None.100% the opposite to my experience.
Click to expand...



He was referring to vertical play, the "up and down", and the pivot tightness would not have an effect on that. A few years ago I remember reading that the early model Presidios did have a problem with vertical blade play and unlocking issues. I think this had something to do with the ramp shape on the blade tang(?). Anyway, BM did fix the problem from what I understand.
 
Blop said:
This i so 100% the opposite to my experience, that i would believe, the issues are caused by the user or the whole story is not true.

This is absolutely no offense to you! It is just to make clear, how your words apear to me.:)

I use the 520 as my favorite axis folder. I can imagine, what is meant by blade play. But this can be solved easily by tightning the pivot. Nothing exotic, nothing new. Unbelievable, you can´t have solved that. Unbelievable you have found others like that, one for the next. None, that i get, was that way. None.

100% the opposite to my experience.
Click to expand...

I think you're a bit confused...Up and down blade play cannot be solved by tightening the pivot. Just like on just about every other folding knife out there, regardless of locking mechanism, tightening the pivot only effects a change in the amount of side-to-side play and has little or no bearing on the amount of up-and-down play. Both the dealer I bought it from and Benchmade were unable to fix it and sent it back to me with just as much play. You'd think that if up-and down play were so easily fixed, one of the biggest knife companies in North America could figure out how to do it :p. I can see how you'd make that mistake, though.
 
ibute21 said:
Oh definitely, the RAM is the smoothest opening production knife I have ever owned. If you disengage the lock and just flip it open or shut, it just glides into place. And on top of that it has ridiculously fast opening, I dare say its faster than most of the autos I have handled. It also opens faster than my BM 580 and that is an amazing fast assisted opener.
Click to expand...

I still don't understand how the darn thing can open so fast as you guys have mentioned. :confused: Faster than a Barrage axis assist? That's fast man! :eek:

Any of my standard axis locks open as fast as an auto knife and that without even pulling the lock back and flicking it, but using the thumbstud and a little wrist action. That's why I quit any switchblade buying after my first Benchmade axis lock, I knew I had a folder that cops wouldn't frown on and was also fast as h*ll. ;)
 
I like lockbacks and framelocks (and liners by extension). Both are much simpler then either the Hawk or AXIS locks.
 
Josh K said:
I like lockbacks and framelocks (and liners by extension). Both are much simpler then either the Hawk or AXIS locks.
Click to expand...

Spyderco fanboy here, but I don't know if you can say that a lock back is much simpler than an axis lock. Hawk lock, maybe; if only because I haven't popped one open to take a look.

Springs apply force to a bar or rod which maintains pressure against the blade tang until it snaps into place.

Life span of the springs, certainly. Those axis lock springs are significantly smaller than even those of keychain lockbacks.
 
Artfully Martial said:
Well, I think there's a...
Click to expand...

I don't think there is going to be any convincing you.

Axis is:

-Much easier to clean. (It may not be likely to get debris in the Hawk, but it only takes once at the right time...)
-Just as fast, and if slower if would be not be a determinable amount. (When flipping you would be holding the bar away from the tang.)
-Ability to be turned into a fixed blade.
-Other spring material can be used to replace springs.
-Fully ambidextrous. (Of course a left handed person can use a hawk, but Axis is the definition of ambidextrous.)
-Much more prevalent and tested over time.
-Lock is in better placement so as not to be accidentally disengaged by user. (I don't think the argument that someone could disengage it in a fight is a valid one.)

Josh K said:
I like lockbacks and framelocks (and liners by extension). Both are much simpler then either the Hawk or AXIS locks.
Click to expand...

But if and when those two locks do fail, they're done. Axis could technically work indefinitely. And you don't have to put your hand in the way of the closing blade. The axis closes much quicker and easier, something I appreciate when using it around people.

Axis vs the world!!
haha
 
For two years I used my MUDD hard. Digging in the ground to cut roots on briars and crabapple suckers. Did this in the spring and again each fall. I never had the lock on the folder to accidentally disengage.

As has been pointed out; Benchmade owns the Axis Lock period. They can put it on any knife they design, or have the collaboraters incorporate into their designs. This is great as it puts the Axis Lock out there in many different versions. The Hawk Lock belongs to G&G Hawk, not to KAI, so any Hawk Lock knife that KAI builds, whether for Kershaw or the ZT brand, is going to be a knife the Hawks have designed.

I think both locks are excellent, and I own both locks. We can sit here for the next twenty years and argue about one over the other, or accept that they are both good and both unique, and both a step up in knife technology.

I would not hesitate to attack those roots and suckers with either lock in my hand! Give me a MUDD or give me a Bone Collector and I will put the fear of God into some briars and crab apple roots!:thumbup::thumbup::D
 
Blop said:
This i so 100% the opposite to my experience, that i would believe, the issues are caused by the user or the whole story is not true.

This is absolutely no offense to you! It is just to make clear, how your words apear to me.:)

Interesting, that you have had that things happen. I use axis since 2003 and never had any problems with the omegas.

I never had any problems with dirt or debris or pocket lint. I never had since i can clip pocket knives onto the seam. I have taken the knives apart and found little to nothing in the slot for the springs, after one or two years. Debris was kept up, so you can easily blow it away (as i was using a 110 - type of folder, a blow out of debris off the blade tang was the first i did, any time, i mean any time, i get the knife out of the pocket. Do we know, what we are talking about?)

The axis itself will not take much debris, maybe except the pocket has become a sand box.:D Thats caused by the user.:)

I use the 520 as my favorite axis folder. I can imagine, what is meant by blade play. But this can be solved easily by tightning the pivot. Nothing exotic, nothing new. Unbelievable, you can´t have solved that. Unbelievable you have found others like that, one for the next. None, that i get, was that way. None.

100% the opposite to my experience.
Click to expand...


I have to agree with a lot of this. I carry an AXIS lock every day for the last 5 + years and I have never had an issue with the lock getting junk in it. I have used them for EDC, in my welding shop and around the house, camping, fishing, and just about everything a knife can be used for. Junk getting in the lock is a non issue. I have owned probably over 40 AXIS lock knives and some have been sold or traded and I still own close to 20 of them. I personally have never had a problem with up and down play unless you consider the slightest movement play. I can detect some type of movement in just about every folder I have ever held but don't consider that play. A noticeable amount of movement is what I consider play and I have not run across that.

I also don't think it is fair to say a lock is completely over rated when you only have experience with one knife. Every thing can have a lemon and to write off something that is extremely popular because you potentially had a problem seems silly. I would also like to know where you bought the knife and if you ever disassembled the knife? It has been shown that some AXIS lock knives can be put back together incorrectly where the omega springs get pinched and will break. If they both broke one right after the other then something was wrong with the knife. I have had one omega spring break that was cycled tens of thousands of times (I estimate close to 20K on that knife). But it took me 5 minutes with a piece of MIG welding wire and a couple pairs of needle nose pliers and the knife was back together and working like a champ and it still is. There are also thousands if not hundreds of thousands (or even millions?) of AXIS lock folders and there have been about 20 reports of omega spring failures on this forum. Statistically that makes the chance of an omega spring failing essentially zero, even if only a fraction of the total number of failures have been reported. Also slop is usually referred to play in a system not dirt or contamination. So there was a misunderstanding with the use of the term slop.

I am also not a fan boy. I like things that I have experiences with and that work. I like many different brands and different models but I also dislike certain models within those same brands. I also don't like everything each company does and yet like other things. For me AXIS lock knives just work and if I could, every single knife I bought would have this type of lock. I like it much better than frame and liner locks and also better than the ball bearing lock and Hawk lock although I really like both of those and they are right behind the AXIS. Because it works well for me, is strong, smooth, placed perfectly and is reliable does not make me a fanboy.

All that being said I really like the Hawk lock and have both the ZT 0500 and the RAM. They are both very smooth knives and open with almost zero resistance once past the lock. They are both knives that have almost zero detectable play as I mentioned before. My RAM does not pass a light spine tap on my palm but I still really like it. I might have a bad one though as I have been told by others that multiple knives have been tested without that problem. I have bought 3 RAM knives and given 2 as gifts and I'm planning on buying another 3 for gifts. For $45 they are a great deal and make a great knife to introduce people to quality knives.

They are both great locks and make using a knife almost fun and they work very well. I personally think the AXIS is the best lock out there and the best engineered but the Hawk lock is not to far behind it although I doubt it is nearly as strong.
 
Last edited:
cziv said:
I still don't understand how the darn thing can open so fast as you guys have mentioned. :confused: Faster than a Barrage axis assist? That's fast man! :eek:
Click to expand...

[youtube]J9_bDOXGXuM[/youtube]

Josh K said:
I like lockbacks and framelocks (and liners by extension). Both are much simpler then either the Hawk or AXIS locks.
Click to expand...


It's not rocket science........

[youtube]uJQggZu7ni8[/youtube]
 
darthsoaker said:
Well, no, you said it was "much simpler", as if the knife was opened by little tiny combustion engines and held open by ancient magical rituals.
Click to expand...

You mean to infer tone from text? Why so defensive? :confused:

BTW, they are much simpler.
 
svrider3 said:
Here?? :confused:
Click to expand...

Ah, I misread what I quoted. :eek: I thought he said Hawk and AXIS.

Let's see, with an AXIS lock you have a bar, moving on two cutouts in a liner into a slot on the tang with two Omega springs stopped by a stop pin.

With a lockback you have one rocker with one spring locking onto the tang.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top