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and through this process of emailing and oh so innocently referring them to cove - you did not once thought of asking them why the hell were you mentioned at the same add???
come on...:rolleyes: :yawn: :barf:

your story has too many holes....
 
In looking at the pictures, I see that Bub's sharpened edges are considerably shorter on each face than Neil's. Additionally, Bub's holes appear to be larger, taking up a greater portion of the area. Finally, I see a lanyard hole above the finger notch on Bub's knife that is not present on Neil's. Generally, though, it's true that they're both 2-hole credit card knives with a finger notch - try patenting it.

Anyone know what the Weyer lead time is these days, and what the cutoff date was for publishing in the TK where the ad first appeared? How much time do any of you spend before deciding which piece to get photographed and put in an ad? Do a time line here, and you'll see that it's not really probable that Bub first saw the design in June, decided immediately that it was a gold mine worth risking his reputation over, produced prototypes, had the Weyers do pics, had an ad layed out, and submitted it - all by a printer's deadline that had to have passed in what - September for an issue that just went on sale?

Yes, it's possible, and with Bub unable to defend himself, it's easy to propose. But considering what I KNOW to be true, and what's likeley to be true, I just don't see this.

Not to throw him to the wolves, but Paul isn't my problem, and if you have issues, by all means take them up with him. But I personally KNEW Bub to be a man who's character was so beyond reproach that I do take it personally to see him accused with nothing more than thin, circumstantial evidence. Moreso than many of us, Bub had friends who loved him, gentlemen. Loved him enough to take an attack on him as an attack on themselves.
 
My gut feeling is that Brian has hit the nail on the thread.
 
Neil presented some evidence in this thread in an accusation he felt was solid. Neil laid everything out, and there is not a thing wrong with that.

The problem comes with the lynching and gang raping solely based on Neil's accusation. Not only did people jump on Paul without giving him a chance to tell his story, they refuse to listen to anything he has said. Is everything he said the absolute truth? I don't know. I wasn't a fly on the wall the past several months. Jumping all over the accused simply because a "friend" is the one doing the accusing is pretty cheap. Especially when much of the evidence is still needed to be gathered.

Why did Paul refer people to Cove? Cove is a known stocking dealer of Bub's knives. Paul didn't need to see the advertisement to know that.

Like Brian said, from the looks of the ad, it's a Bub Worrell ad and not a Circle P advertisement. Paul could have very easily not have seen or had prior knowledge of this ad.

Am I saying Paul is innocent and all this is a bunch of crap? No. I'm laying down the facts from the other side of the story that people want to overlook in their blind rage for Paul. Lot's of people dislike Paul, and he's probably no angel. I'm sure there's lots of people in this community that dislike me. That doesn't make a theif or liar. Same could be said for Paul. Personal dislikes and personal issues are just that, personal.

Brian,
Thanks for taking the time to look at the issue from all angles without jumping blindlessly onto one of the parties involved. That is all I have been asking for this entire thread. Whether Paul is in the right or wrong has yet to be determined. He deserves the oppertunity to prove his case and lay down his evidence before getting lynched. People can say they have given him that oppertunity, but all he has been given is insults and defaming statements to counter.

I have not and will not take sides in this issue. It's finally refreshing to see someone break it down from both points of view. I think Brian had excellent clear headed posts on the subject, and everyone should go back and read them again.

JR
 
When is this witch hunt going to end?

Bub is gone so I can confidently say no more will be made by him.

If Paul is a worthless dealer, don't do business with him.

Neil is a fine gentleman and I hate this happened to him, but it's water under the bridge.

Copying has been going on for decades and I would hazard a guess that it will probably get worse in the future. If you plan to survive as a maker, learn to deal with it. As was said on another thread in this forum, "Sometimes you just gotta say WTF".

After you guys burn Paul at the stake or whatever you intend to do to him, let me know and I can give you more names for the next one.

And, no, Paul is not a friend of mine, or one of my dealers. I just hate witch hunts.
 
Just to clarify here; I have admitted that I know nothing of this deal concerning Bub. I am faulting him in no way. This is not a witch hunt. You say "If Paul is a worthless dealer, don't do business with him." For me this is exactly my case...and my point, and feel others should maybe be made aware, that's all.
 
Then I should expect never hearing another maker bitch when his designs get stolen and cloned. It's water under the bridge the moment it's discovered.

and I hate witch hunts also. That's when someone who is completely innocent gets fried for doing absolutely nothing.


I will cease posting here without believing for one minute that another maker thought up this design without any influence from another and Circle P was the reciepient of free advertising and had no prior knowledge of the existence of these cloned knives.

And the second someone buys one of these clones, the money goes to other than Neil Blackwood, but that's just dandy...........
 
Originally posted by wolfmann601

and I hate witch hunts also. That's when someone who is completely innocent gets fried for doing absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...

Oh really?
Then what again was Paul's crime aside from buying a knife at full price and showing it to another maker?
 
Steve,
The witch hunt comments were based on the this thread, not the other one you have going.

Wolfman,
Bitching and screaming is one thing, unproven accusations are a whole different ballgame.
Water under the bridge because the ONLY one with the answer is not with us anymore :(
I'm still trying to figure out what your last 2 paragraphs are trying to say.

PhilL,
Good point. That hadn't crossed my mind :(
 
Samhell posted a link to an ebay auction -- a credit card knife that bears no resemblance to the ones being discussed here. I don't know, he probably didn't intend that as spam, but advertising ebay auctions isn't allowed on Bladeforums.

As long as I'm here I might as well mention the moderators are watching this thread and waiting for more facts to come out -- but you knew that....
 
Sorry,I came into this thread late.

I called Cove Cutlery today to give him a heads up about this thread. We quickly discussed what was going on. (Remember, this is our busy season and both of us were at work.) I have no idea why no one else thought to call them since they were also mentioned in the ad.

This is the jist of the discussion: Cove had carried a number of Bub Worrell's knives. Awhile back, Bub mentioned that he was doing a credit card knife. Bub mentioned to the owner of Cove Cutlery that he was putting an ad in Tactical Knives mentioning their store and a few others that dealt his knives. At no point in time did he mention Paul Vandine or Circle P Knives to the owner of Cove Cutlery.

Whether Bub was aware of the closness of his credit card knife to Mr. Backwood's or not is a moot point. The family has any prototypes that may exist. To contact the family about this would just bring more heart ache.

What is important is Paul Vandine was never mentioned in any conversation Bub had with Cove Cutlery. That seems to me to indicate he had no involvement with Bub's credit card knife, nor any prior knowledge of the advertivisment in Tactical Knives.

I really don't know Paul Vandine. I had met Paul breifly at the Blade Show last year. He and his wife were kind enough to drop me off at my hotel one evening. I have no business dealings with him, nor have no information as far as his business practices. He had asked me about carring some swords from a local maker, but gracefully took no for an answer. Paul did not in anyway come across as a bully. In fact, if I have to attribute any emotion about him it would be more pity than anything else.

To continue to accuse Paul Vandine in this thread would be as Kit suggested nothing more than a witch hunt.


Pam
 
Originally posted by Kit Carson
When is this witch hunt going to end?

After you guys burn Paul at the stake or whatever you intend to do to him, let me know and I can give you more names for the next one.
Click to expand...


Now you are just teasing us kit!!!!!

its been kind of boring around here....

we want names! we need more names!

:p :p :p
 
Bringing the activity of a design being ripped off to the attention of the mebers of this forum is a good thing. Speculating about who is at fault, is not. There is never going to be any proof that Bub was the culprit, but his name is being sullied; even if unintentionally.

There really is no proof that Paul had anything to do with this either. Until there is, maybe the prudent thing to do would be to let this matter lie. Everyone can form whatever opinions they want, but opinions are all they are going to be unless someone comes up with the smoking gun.
 
Overall I'd like to see a bit more "ask questions first, shoot later" instead of the inverse...

Kevin
 
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