-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
HEST Folder Warranty -Your Thoughts
- Thread starter R.A.T.
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2007
- Messages
- 25
you are selling a bad folder, in the big boy price range. step up!
ive got 30k in snap on tools for a reason.
i have a couple grand in my dillon set up.
I buy the best tools, one time only. if this blade is not in the same class as strider, snap on, or dillon, then youll need a lame ass warrenty.
dave
ive got 30k in snap on tools for a reason.
i have a couple grand in my dillon set up.
I buy the best tools, one time only. if this blade is not in the same class as strider, snap on, or dillon, then youll need a lame ass warrenty.
dave
- Joined
- May 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,066
Even the best of tools break. Our garage is full of probably a fraction of your 30k in snap on tools, but we have had socket wrenches snap when working under the hood... yes they are top of the line, but the bottom line is nothing is invincible. And as I recall snap on tools also have a lifetime warranty but, for normal use breakage. If you intentionally break it to try and prove it can do something it cannot they won't help you.
ESEE doesn't offer an unconditional warranty because they assume their tools will break in the field on the user. It is there because they use the tools themselves, and know their limitations, and aren't going to say "too bad" to a customer who put faith in their tool and it broke under rare circumstances.
Remember. EVERYTHING can break, and it takes a damn good and honest company to admit that their tool has limitations, and will stand behind their product no matter what you do to it.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2009
- Messages
- 820
Interesting comment about D2 being "cheaper" I designed this folder with only ONE thing in mind. What folder would I want in my day to day usage. There has never been a discussion anywhere along the development of this knife about doing something cheaper. We have explored a number of ideas and each concept was judged on the merits of "does this create a tougher folder". Many people pointed out a single piece of flexible steel is the strongest, most flexible material for the fixed HEST (which is made for field sharpening and extreme abuse). For the folder I wanted something that would hold a wicked edge for a very long time. D2 is that steel. With the only downside is that it is harder and therefore less flexible. And it is not a stainless (ergo the Titanium Carbide coating) The frame should be light and strong so Titanium allow was chosen and the hardware oversized with the addition of Lion Steel's RotoBlock so you can actually keep it in fixed, ready to deploy position.
The manufacturer had to have hard to find ideal combination of high technology and skilled knife makers. With the ability to deliver that hard to define feeling of quality in both finish and movement. You can make knives cheaper in factories but after a few years you can feel the lack of hand fitting and adjustment in the movement.
Finally if cost was no object, why does this knife cost less that some of the other low run tough folders? Well that's something you will have to ask them. Because I also strongly believe that good design should deliver a superior product at a fair price to the customer. Another design mandate that is as important as performance.
The third and final criteria is that a customer is a customer for life. Ergo this discussion on warranty and the design process. A lot of good comments here.
The manufacturer had to have hard to find ideal combination of high technology and skilled knife makers. With the ability to deliver that hard to define feeling of quality in both finish and movement. You can make knives cheaper in factories but after a few years you can feel the lack of hand fitting and adjustment in the movement.
Finally if cost was no object, why does this knife cost less that some of the other low run tough folders? Well that's something you will have to ask them. Because I also strongly believe that good design should deliver a superior product at a fair price to the customer. Another design mandate that is as important as performance.
The third and final criteria is that a customer is a customer for life. Ergo this discussion on warranty and the design process. A lot of good comments here.
TLR
Gold Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 1,568
With all the steels that I own, have owned (aus8, ats34, bg42, d2, m4, s30v, 154cm, s90v, 440c, 1095, 5120) and that are out there I'm very happy with the choice of D2. With a good heat treat it's a tough durable steel that takes a great edge. I think it's perfectly suitable for a knife at this price point.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2001
- Messages
- 2,978
Personally, If I had been concerned what the final warranty on the HEST/F would end up being; I would not have placed an order. 
BUT, since that was not the case; the orders were placed... ASAP when it opened up. :thumbup:
Knowing what the ESEE Warranty has been thus far, and after meeting some of you guys at Blade this year... I am not concerned in any way that what you come up with for the Warranty on the HEST/F will be, "MORE THAN FAIR".
Thinking about it is a non issue with me... IOW, I have not given it a second thought.
Additionally, some people can tear up a STEEL BRICK. I do not think these people should be coddled or catered to, IMO anyway. This is a tool, it has it limitations; just as any tool does. It should be used as such.
Sure, IF by some strange twist of fate; there were a manufacturing defect: I would expect that to be covered.
I would also hope, at some point in time; reasonably priced spare parts might be available for those of us who need them. That will most likely be from losing some screws, bending clips, or losing/screwing something up when we take them apart.
Other than that guys, I feel certain that you will come up with a Warranty for the HEST/F that will be fair to you [the company] as well as to us the customer.
So, don't sweat it. You aren't gonna please everyone in the world, why try.
Just be fair, as you always have been to my knowledge.... and keep making these cool knives. :thumbup:
And, IMO; as far as the comment one guy made about using D2 because it "costs less"...... I have not a clue.
In the big scheme of things it might cost a few cents less per blade than some steels, but it cost a few cents more per blade than others.
Personally, I am glad you used D2. I think it was a wise choice and will do well, as the steel of choice for this folder.
Keep up the good work....... :thumbup:
The End............
BUT, since that was not the case; the orders were placed... ASAP when it opened up. :thumbup:
Knowing what the ESEE Warranty has been thus far, and after meeting some of you guys at Blade this year... I am not concerned in any way that what you come up with for the Warranty on the HEST/F will be, "MORE THAN FAIR".
Thinking about it is a non issue with me... IOW, I have not given it a second thought.
Additionally, some people can tear up a STEEL BRICK. I do not think these people should be coddled or catered to, IMO anyway. This is a tool, it has it limitations; just as any tool does. It should be used as such.
Sure, IF by some strange twist of fate; there were a manufacturing defect: I would expect that to be covered.
I would also hope, at some point in time; reasonably priced spare parts might be available for those of us who need them. That will most likely be from losing some screws, bending clips, or losing/screwing something up when we take them apart.
Other than that guys, I feel certain that you will come up with a Warranty for the HEST/F that will be fair to you [the company] as well as to us the customer.
So, don't sweat it. You aren't gonna please everyone in the world, why try.
Just be fair, as you always have been to my knowledge.... and keep making these cool knives. :thumbup:
And, IMO; as far as the comment one guy made about using D2 because it "costs less"...... I have not a clue.
In the big scheme of things it might cost a few cents less per blade than some steels, but it cost a few cents more per blade than others.
Personally, I am glad you used D2. I think it was a wise choice and will do well, as the steel of choice for this folder.
Keep up the good work....... :thumbup:
The End............
imaginefj
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2006
- Messages
- 1,676
Man, gotta give it to a guy who is strait to the point. Although that maybe came off as harsh...I agree. Especially on the price note.
I agree with you as well. But, the companies Dave mentioned have no questions warranties. I think that is a valid point.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2010
- Messages
- 4,988
Dear RYP
You just answered my next question.
Thank you.:thumbup:
You just answered my next question.
Thank you.:thumbup:
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2007
- Messages
- 25
Im sorry if i came across, as a jerk, that was not my intention.
any of the tools i mentioned, can be broken. Ninetynine % of the people
buying and using them, will not have a problem. the other one %, may
tear them up on purpose. All of the previous mentioned tools, are tough,
but the no bs warrenty is factored into the original purchase price.
dave
any of the tools i mentioned, can be broken. Ninetynine % of the people
buying and using them, will not have a problem. the other one %, may
tear them up on purpose. All of the previous mentioned tools, are tough,
but the no bs warrenty is factored into the original purchase price.
dave
- Joined
- May 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,066
scooter I'm sorry if I sounded like a jerk to you, wasn't my intention at all. If for any reason I offended you I apologize.
Just got a little excited typing...
Regardless, I do understand your point. And this knife may or may not be worth it to some people, I just really hope people don't turn away from it simply because the warranty isn't worded to their liking, or they don't think the type of warranty is compatible.
I have faith in ESEE and DPX to be fair in their final decision, I expect no less from such upstanding knife companies.
My order stands :thumbup:
Just got a little excited typing...
Regardless, I do understand your point. And this knife may or may not be worth it to some people, I just really hope people don't turn away from it simply because the warranty isn't worded to their liking, or they don't think the type of warranty is compatible.
I have faith in ESEE and DPX to be fair in their final decision, I expect no less from such upstanding knife companies.
My order stands :thumbup:
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2009
- Messages
- 529
i thought that he just meant that since benchmade provides replacement blades for 25 bucks nomatter the steel (at least that is my understanding) and that d2 is more affordable....i didnt get that he was pointing at it being inferior
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2003
- Messages
- 3,330
A few points:
1) Benchmade's Disassembly voids the warranty is misunderstood. Benchmade doesn't give a rat's patootie whether you disassemble their folders. In fact, they sell branded tool kits for this express purpose. What that warranty language is intended to intercept is Joe Numbnuts sending in the ol' "Bag o' Parts," with stripped out torx screws and/or cross threaded liner holes, and expecting a factory worker to reassemble or refurbish the knife for free. Joe Numbnuts should be paying a fee for his subpar mechanical skills and he should also pay in the event he buys and buggers an ESEE folder.
2) A great way to proactively prevent warranty claims is to set up a reasonably priced "spa" service that includes things such as spec checks, sharpening, and the replacement of washers. The key to such a service is that it has to be dedicated to quick turn around, not done "when we can get to it" or it doesn't fly. IT HAS TO BE FAST. An alternative to spa service is to make replacement parts readily available with as little hassle and maximum availability as can be managed. Most such purchases are for pocket clips, lost screws, new washers, etc. Not having to ship a knife for the factory replacement of such basic wear items is a sales plus.
3) The warranty should expressly cover defects in materials or workmanship for life with no questions asked. As an example, say that the blade arrives from the factory with centering issues upon closing. At first this appears mostly cosmetic, but over time say this lack of central blade mounting/ slightly off center finishing of the blade tang is wearing out one washer faster than the other and causing unacceptable lateral blade play. That should be warranted without question no matter how long it takes to crop up.
4) All end user damage to the knife should place the burden on the end user to explain it, with warranty coverage determined at the discretion of the company.
That said, denials should only be made for obvious lies and/or truthfully stupid stories. Buck has used such a policy for decades and it works. Sometimes they have even used such warranty claims as advertising/endorsements in print advertising. I understand that such is a lot easier to do with a $35.00 Buck 110, but if an ESEE folder intercepts a 7.62 commie round and saves its owner from a smashed pelvis, you replace it in exchange for the old one and the rights to use the tale in advertising. If Joe Numbnuts sends in his folder with an obviously twisted off blade tip from using his folder as a flat head screwdriver, he'd better have a more compelling tale of survival than that he didn't want to go back a few yards to the truck and get the right tool or is too lazy to carry a SAK.
To make a long point shorter, you don't want to promote lying, but documented claims for extraordinary field use/damage are valuable and should trigger full efforts at free repair/replacement. Run of the mill lack of imagination/abuse/wear and tear should be directed towards spa treatment. Blade replacement for unreasonable damage/abuse should be expensive enough to teach a lesson or at cost, whichever is higher, but not so high as to get the knife thrown in a drawer and a disgruntled customer unleashed onto the disinformation cow path.
1) Benchmade's Disassembly voids the warranty is misunderstood. Benchmade doesn't give a rat's patootie whether you disassemble their folders. In fact, they sell branded tool kits for this express purpose. What that warranty language is intended to intercept is Joe Numbnuts sending in the ol' "Bag o' Parts," with stripped out torx screws and/or cross threaded liner holes, and expecting a factory worker to reassemble or refurbish the knife for free. Joe Numbnuts should be paying a fee for his subpar mechanical skills and he should also pay in the event he buys and buggers an ESEE folder.
2) A great way to proactively prevent warranty claims is to set up a reasonably priced "spa" service that includes things such as spec checks, sharpening, and the replacement of washers. The key to such a service is that it has to be dedicated to quick turn around, not done "when we can get to it" or it doesn't fly. IT HAS TO BE FAST. An alternative to spa service is to make replacement parts readily available with as little hassle and maximum availability as can be managed. Most such purchases are for pocket clips, lost screws, new washers, etc. Not having to ship a knife for the factory replacement of such basic wear items is a sales plus.
3) The warranty should expressly cover defects in materials or workmanship for life with no questions asked. As an example, say that the blade arrives from the factory with centering issues upon closing. At first this appears mostly cosmetic, but over time say this lack of central blade mounting/ slightly off center finishing of the blade tang is wearing out one washer faster than the other and causing unacceptable lateral blade play. That should be warranted without question no matter how long it takes to crop up.
4) All end user damage to the knife should place the burden on the end user to explain it, with warranty coverage determined at the discretion of the company.
That said, denials should only be made for obvious lies and/or truthfully stupid stories. Buck has used such a policy for decades and it works. Sometimes they have even used such warranty claims as advertising/endorsements in print advertising. I understand that such is a lot easier to do with a $35.00 Buck 110, but if an ESEE folder intercepts a 7.62 commie round and saves its owner from a smashed pelvis, you replace it in exchange for the old one and the rights to use the tale in advertising. If Joe Numbnuts sends in his folder with an obviously twisted off blade tip from using his folder as a flat head screwdriver, he'd better have a more compelling tale of survival than that he didn't want to go back a few yards to the truck and get the right tool or is too lazy to carry a SAK.
To make a long point shorter, you don't want to promote lying, but documented claims for extraordinary field use/damage are valuable and should trigger full efforts at free repair/replacement. Run of the mill lack of imagination/abuse/wear and tear should be directed towards spa treatment. Blade replacement for unreasonable damage/abuse should be expensive enough to teach a lesson or at cost, whichever is higher, but not so high as to get the knife thrown in a drawer and a disgruntled customer unleashed onto the disinformation cow path.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 16, 2006
- Messages
- 1,769
Just found out about this knife I have a Lionsteel SR1 and it is great!( abit too large) How do I put and order in ?? D2 is perfect !!
You can preorder a production model, the sprint runs are out.
For instance:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=762189
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2007
- Messages
- 1,918
And once again, this just proves why ESEE is so successful and has such a loyal customer base.
Jeff & Mike, my hat off to you two gentlemen!
Jeff & Mike, my hat off to you two gentlemen!
There are a few features I would really like to see in the warranty.
1. Lifetime.
2. A user should be able to disassemble and service it without worrying about voiding the warranty. (More than a few will probably end up muddy and bloody)
3. Depending on weather or not it is economically possible I would like smaller bits like screws to be readily available if needed. I realize Kershaw has the backing of the massive KAI group but I really appreciate their tendency to hand out screws and clips like candy.
I also like Boats spa idea and the oft-mentioned blade replacement for a fee idea.
1. Lifetime.
2. A user should be able to disassemble and service it without worrying about voiding the warranty. (More than a few will probably end up muddy and bloody)
3. Depending on weather or not it is economically possible I would like smaller bits like screws to be readily available if needed. I realize Kershaw has the backing of the massive KAI group but I really appreciate their tendency to hand out screws and clips like candy.
I also like Boats spa idea and the oft-mentioned blade replacement for a fee idea.
R.A.T.
Randall's Adventure & Training
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2004
- Messages
- 10,400
The only question I would have on "disassembly" is why would that void the warranty as long as someone knew what they were doing and reassembeled it properly. Now, if someone reassembles it without knowing what they're doing and can't get it back together, crushes a bearing washer, strips a screw, etc. then do you feel that is our fault and we should be responsible?