Hey guys need help with a Canadian buyer.

[treeshaker]

People here are spouting rules as if they were carved into stone by the gods - insurance always on the seller, values on customs forms, and on and on. Yup that is how all deals work

If the buyer requests a low value to be listed on the customs form, that is an automatic acceptance on their part that insurance cannot be provided for the full value of the item and thus the buyer is on the hook if something happens to the item while it is in transit. Putting $20 on the customs form does not help the seller in any way but can potentially save the buyer quite a bit of money like it did here. An arrangement with all of the benefits but zero risk for the buyer? That makes no sense.

As for the issue of how the knife was packaged, I am on the fence. I ship about half my items in USPS small flat rate boxes and the remaining in bubble mailers - never had a problem *knock on wood*. In either type of packaging, I do make it a point to wrap the item in foam, bubble wrap, etc so it does not move around inside and so it cannot be identified by touch alone. If someone really wants to open it and take a peek for nefarious reasons, it will be opened and taken regardless of the packaging.

Though I do agree the box can at times prevent an opportunistic theft, this is not one of those situations. Am I missing something or was this not deliberately opened at customs? Box, envelope, tube, what have you - it was going to be opened regardless and I do not see how the packaging suddenly bears so much responsibility. A Vox is very nice, hefty knife - you do not need to be a knife nut to identify it as something valuable. Even on the flip side, someone could see a $20 gift declaration and think it is no big deal if it goes missing. The empty packaging gets sealed up and sent on its way leading to this unfortunate situation. Like I said, a box would not have changed the end result. The blame should still fall on the actual thief.

Splitting the loss is an okay solution but the seller is being pretty generous to agree to that. Not much flexibility with the buyer holding him over the flames on the PP dispute. BF typically looks down upon a PP dispute being opened before any kind of agreement is discussed privately between both parties - at least from what I have seen lately.

Great post, and 100% Ludwig, You are a master seller/buyer on this forum and I have watched you conduct yourself without flaw since I joined. It is your honesty and honor that allows you to buy or sell some of the nicest knives moving in the exchange. I say that, only to add that I listen when "real" guys who actually "move" knives on this forum speak. I too have shipped many knives and purchased far more and have never been burned. I also have several GREAT contacts in Canada, whom I trust as well as any member here. Below I list fair honest reasons the buyer is at fault, and I never, despite what you think you read, every stoop to call anyone names or judge anyone. I am only stating the facts, from law as well as many dealing with Canadian customs.

Why buyer is 100% at fault. Buyer asked op to cheat and break the Law,, buyer living in Canada and being far more aware of what this meant , established himself as someone who broke the law without any problem, did not follow the rules and in all fairness sought to defraud the Canadian Government out of revenue. He is basically an IRS Tax evader in the USA. If the op is anything, he is not reporting buyer to Canadian Customs and Revenue Service for Tax fraud. A case, as important to the Canadian Government as to our IRS. The buyer chose however to quickly turn seller in to Paypal, and no doubt as many have pointed out PP will side with Buyer. At which point the seller has every right to respond by advising those above of the buyers intent and motives. Fair, is Fair. Regardless, Mr. "pack it inside a safe" posters, the Canadian Customs, more paranoid than any customs group, is going to open, fondle, use, smell, drop, smash, trash, almost every package that crosses their borders. Packaging is not an issue. Everything sent to Canada looks trashed when it is open. The buyer, by asking for $20 value, prevented the seller, from buying USPS insurance, I have tried doing it both ways, IT WILL NOT WORK, IF YOU DO NOT SHIP TO CANADA, YOU HAVE ZERO KNOWLEDGE AND SHOULD NOT POST. USPS will only insure to the stated value.
Since you are shipping into Canada, and unless you use required signature, which in Canada you can not do without Declared value over $250 and insurance, your insurance does not work period unless item is shipped Air Freight, where the item, clears custom at the point of shipment, the USPS where you ship from. So much the posting members here, do not know, but want to hold seller at fault. As record and knowledge, about 70% of the outside USA locations USPS ships direct to can not be insured, for any cost and the seller is taking a full on dumb risk.
It is without question my view that since the buyer took all the steps to prevent the seller from protecting himself, by creating tax fraud in Canada, by violating customs declarations of actual item and value, and by moving so quick with paypal, seller is not at fault. I also wonder, with buyer having full knowledge of what he was creating , if in fact the knife is actually missing. Buyer took every necessary step to prevent tracking, Before I would surrender to public pressure to split anything, I would suggest seller, discuss with buyer the laws broken by action of the buyers demands and the involvement of paypal.

 

[Skystorm]

This seems pretty simple to me. Buyer asked Seller to falsify a Customs form, a crime on both sides of the border btw, Seller foolishly agreed to put 20.00 on a 1000+ knife. I think the thing missing here is that people need to understand that despite claims to the contrary Customs agents are generally reasonably intelligent individuals and it's not really that difficult to see that the knife in questions was not a 20.00 knife.

Falsifying Customs Forms

"A false or misleading declaration may lead to a fine or seizure of the item and additional penalties."

Seems pretty clear. It was most likely seized at Customs.


Seller is at fault for lying on a Customs form and undervaluing the shipment. I never understand why Sellers will do this considering that there is absolutely no benefit to the Seller and carries a much higher risk value, besides forfeiting the item they can levy some pretty fantastic fines on you. The Buyer can't twist your arm into doing so. Him asking should have sent red flags that he was already dishonest. There is always another buyer.

I will never undervalue a package. Sorry, your import duties are your responsibility and the cost of doing business over the border. If you don't like it then take it up with your government. Sorry your out such a large amount of money but it is your own fault for agreeing to a shady deal in the first place.
Both parties go on the ignore list.

 

[IamMatt]

Yeah you need to contact the customs and find out what happen. Don't let something like this sit idle. Best case scenario you find the knife or find out where it most likely disappeared.

Does that conversation start with, "Hello, I would like to find out what happened to the $1200 knife that I said was only worth $20 on the customs form so the buyer could avoid duties?"

Their response might be, "Yes, we have the knife, and we will be happy to release it. Right after you 1) declare the true value of the knife; 2) pay the duty that should have been paid on its true value; 3) pay an additional fine; 4) sitpulate that you lied on a customs form, in breach of whatever law or code governs it; etc."

For now, they might be content now just seizing the knife, but if their cage gets rattled, they might want to pursue the "fines and other penalties" part. I wonder, does anyone know of a case where someone had a knife seized by customs due to misrepresenting its value on a customs form, then got the knife back through some resolution?

 

[craytab]

Why buyer is 100% at fault.

Seriously? They buyer may be a bad person but he literally did nothing. He didn't force the seller to falsify a customs form. He didn't force the seller to not insure the shipment. He didn't force the seller to ship the knife in a completely inadequate package.

Both are idiots. But only one person here made any actual physical mistakes.