Higher standards for hard use folders today?

Higher standards for hard use folders today? Yes. Why? Because that is the nature of man, always trying to improve and never happy with what we have.

Is it necessary? Well that is up to personal opinion and everyone is different in what they expect from a knife. Some want their folders to be bomb proof and others just want theirs to cut. That is why we have so many different flavors to pick from these days.
 
marthinus said:
Higher standards for hard use folders today? Yes. Why? Because that is the nature of man, always trying to improve and never happy with what we have.

Is it necessary? Well that is up to personal opinion and everyone is different in what they expect from a knife. Some want their folders to be bomb proof and others just want theirs to cut. That is why we have so many different flavors to pick from these days.
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Agreed.:thumbup:
 
stabman said:
This is an odd statement.
What is your logic behind it?
How do you explain situations where they were used effectively within a legal context?
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Ankerson gave a good description. I can't go folder against nothing, that's illegal. I wouldn't want to go folder on knife, that's gonna get me cut, and the bad guy isn't going to throw down a gauntlet and duel anyway. I wouldn't want to go folder vs bat/pipe/golf club, I remain at a reach disadvantage. Folder vs gun, well, that doesn't require any explanation.

Knives can be used for SD, but I no longer carry & choose for that purpose. Nobody gets killed with 'tactical' or 'hard use' knives anyway. If kitchen knives, ice picks, and shanks fashioned from razors, plastic, or cigarette filters get the job done, I'm fine with whatever I have on hand. At least I don't have to worry about ad copy making things worse.
 
hardheart said:
Ankerson gave a good description. I can't go folder against nothing, that's illegal. I wouldn't want to go folder on knife, that's gonna get me cut, and the bad guy isn't going to throw down a gauntlet and duel anyway. I wouldn't want to go folder vs bat/pipe/golf club, I remain at a reach disadvantage. Folder vs gun, well, that doesn't require any explanation.

Knives can be used for SD, but I no longer carry & choose for that purpose. Nobody gets killed with 'tactical' or 'hard use' knives anyway. If kitchen knives, ice picks, and shanks fashioned from razors, plastic, or cigarette filters get the job done, I'm fine with whatever I have on hand. At least I don't have to worry about ad copy making things worse.
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I think Kitchen knives and shanks are at the top of the list there for actually killing people in real life.

So the numbers really speak for themselves, you don't need the latest and so called greatest tactical knife defend yourself with. ;)

A $5 kitchen knife from China Mart or an Ice Pick will do just fine in reality.

But the topic isn't SD knives, it's Hard Use Folders. :D
 
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mjolnir74 said:
Also, if the lock holds on these type of knives and the blade breaks, how is a fixed blade better? Most thinner fb's would probably have broken under the same stress. I realize that some fb's are soo thick that you can't break them.
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Someone with more engineering expertise will have to correct me if I am wrong about this, but given the equivalent OAL when opened, a folder with any kind of lock will be less resilient than a well tempered fix bladed full tang knife of similar thickness.

Let's take the typical "hard use folder," which will have a blade commonly averaging between 3.25 and 4.00 inches against a fixed bladed knife of the same blade length. The lateral forces that work against the lock are also working against the tang of the knife where the lock mates to it. It seems to me that such localized forces on the folder will not allow lateral flexing to the same degree that a well done fixed blade will tolerate without giving way.

Long story short, a well tempered full tang fixed blade at its midpoint will tend to bend in a U to varying degrees, in part dependent upon the steel and its thickness, before it breaks.

A folder, no matter how well made, will also tend to "bend" at its midpoint, the mating point between blade and handle, in more of a V shape as it fails. The U curvature of the fixed blade is going to be harder to snap than finding the V point failure of the folder, which is why I believe that when being snarky, folks call folders, "pre-broken."
 
Ankerson said:
You haven't watched my cardboard cutting videos if you think HD hard use folders can't cut, what did you call them.... Sharpened prybars....... ;)

There are a lot of misconceptions and just general bad info floating around on the boards. ;)

The 3 knives (Sharpened Prybars) in the videos below are in these 2 photos...

Top to bottom = CS Black Rhino, ZT 0301, Custom Demko, Strider SmF CC.

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Lets be real, none of those knives were that sharp out of the box. You had to reprofile the edge and resharpen those knives to get it that way. So my point still stands.

PS. Great job on those edges. Looks razor sharp :thumbup:
 
kawr said:
Lets be real, none of those knives were that sharp out of the box. You had to reprofile the edge and resharpen those knives to get it that way. So my point still stands.

PS. Great job on those edges. Looks razor sharp :thumbup:
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That falls under standard maintenance for me on all knives that I use. ;)

It doesn't matter if it's one of them or a Spyderco Endura or a Kitchen knife, I don't leave the factory edge on any knife that I am going to use. :)

They were all sharp when I got them, but I can always get them sharper than the factory.
 
kawr said:
Lets be real, none of those knives were that sharp out of the box. You had to reprofile the edge and resharpen those knives to get it that way. So my point still stands.

PS. Great job on those edges. Looks razor sharp :thumbup:
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They weren't as sharp as Jim made them, but the Black Rhino at least comes absolutely shaving sharp. The Strider wasn't too bad either.
I can't imagine Andrew sending off his custom less than shaving sharp though. ;)
 
I think society's acceptability of fixed blades has drastically increased, putting pressure on the market for beater folders, which IMO is a substitute for the real thing. Not the way it should be, just the way it is....
 
Let's not confuse sharpness with cutting ability. Ankerson could sharpen knives half as thick with his Edgepro, and they could have subsequent improvements in cutting through thick material and loss in strength. Thinner knives cut better and pry badly. They're also hard on a baton.
 
hardheart said:
Let's not confuse sharpness with cutting ability. Ankerson could sharpen knives half as thick with his Edgepro, and they could have subsequent improvements in cutting through thick material and loss in strength. Thinner knives cut better and pry badly. They're also hard on a baton.
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Exactly. :D

Here is a photo, Strider SmF on the left and Spyderco JD Smith on the right. What knife would be the better hard use folder? How long do you think the one on the right would last prying something or putting some real pressure on the blade?

Thin blades do one thing very well, they slice/ cut very well and that's great if all you want to do is slice cheese and open mail. (Not bashing Spyderco here, it just the photo that I had aready taken so I used it here)

The thicker bladed hard use knives can do everything including slicing and cutting so they are more of a general purpose all around tool.

 
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Ankerson said:
I think Kitchen knives and shanks are at the top of the list there for actually killing people in real life.

So the numbers really speak for themselves, you don't need the latest and so called greatest tactical knife defend yourself with. ;)

A $5 kitchen knife from China Mart or an Ice Pick will do just fine in reality.

But the topic isn't SD knives, it's Hard Use Folders. :D
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You have no idea how true this is!!! I respond to a LOT of stabbings. A few times a week, sometimes multiple times in a single shift, depending on the weather. I have been doing this for a long time and I have NEVER seen a "tactical" knife in my district. Kitchen knives are used in 90 percent of the fatals. The rest are gas station specials. A 300 dollar wonder knife is not needed. Trust me on this. The Internet creates a lot of fantasies.
 
proguide said:
You have no idea how true this is!!! I respond to a LOT of stabbings. A few times a week, sometimes multiple times in a single shift, depending on the weather. I have been doing this for a long time and I have NEVER seen a "tactical" knife in my district. Kitchen knives are used in 90 percent of the fatals. The rest are gas station specials. A 300 dollar wonder knife is not needed. Trust me on this. The Internet creates a lot of fantasies.
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I kinda figured that, I used to live in Baltimore when I was younger. :eek:

Thanks for the info. :thumbup:
 
philwar said:
They weren't as sharp as Jim made them, but the Black Rhino at least comes absolutely shaving sharp. The Strider wasn't too bad either.
I can't imagine Andrew sending off his custom less than shaving sharp though. ;)
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I thought all CS folders came with a hand-convexed polished edge.:rolleyes:
 
Let's say that I was under the impression that philwar thought I believed those were factory edges.
 
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