"Horizon" 2014 new knives Lightning quick opening, from china Reate custom knives inc

I think this is the most expensive knife ive seen come from china so far,although theres that carson evo thats 800.00 or so as well.Thats considered a custom,too,dont know alot about that one.Most customs are made in a small shop by either 1 guy or a few people,like their sons,brothers, or relatives,like Todd Begg,Crawford,not sure is this is a big or small operation,i just think this price is really pushing the envelope....
 
My guess is that there is a lot that is getting lost in translation. From the word "custom" to the pricing.

It's a nice design and it's also great to see some Chinese knives that are not fakes.
 
Outstanding questions:

IS it custom, or not?
Is the $350 for the M390 version, or for the S35VN version?

Those two questions (and answers) will decide if this is a good value or over priced.

No, it won't. If I remember correctly, you own one or two production knives with titanium framelocks and S35VN blades that cost more than $350. I doubt you'd call either of them overpriced since they were made by CRK. This could be a full production knife and be worth every penny of $350, it could also be a custom that would be overpriced at $200. The only way to determine will be once someone gets them in hand.
 
Im sure its going to be great quality like the kizers,i just hope the price goes down a bit.if it does i might get one..
 
Politics and country of origin aside, it seems like a well made knife. The design isn't super original, but I wouldn't call it a clone. Lot's of knives look alike (yes, I know, I'm probably being too nice).

I probably shouldn't be casting any stones since my own English leaves much to be desired (it's not my first, or second, language), but the OP should hire a good translator if he isn't proficient enough with the language of his target market. He might have a great knife that a lot of folks on this forum would be interested in, but he just isn't communicating efficiently.

I looked him up on Facebook (Reate Knives) and he's got some really nice looking knives there, pictures of his CNC machines and stuff like that. It looks like he's a custom maker.
 
Outstanding questions:

IS it custom, or not?
Is the $350 for the M390 version, or for the S35VN version?
Does it have a warranty?
How does the F&F compare to other knives?

Those 4 questions (and answers) will decide if this is a good value or over priced.

No, it won't. If I remember correctly, you own one or two production knives with titanium framelocks and S35VN blades that cost more than $350. I doubt you'd call either of them overpriced since they were made by CRK. This could be a full production knife and be worth every penny of $350, it could also be a custom that would be overpriced at $200. The only way to determine will be once someone gets them in hand.

True. I editied my post to reflect two more important questions.
 
It shame to see so many people voice negative opinions and condemn this man to failure before anyone has even held one of his knives.

Some of them probably had family who were in the manufacturing business at some point. :thumbup:
 
Let's stop wildly speculating and wait on the maker to give us some answers. Speculation does nothing but harm.
 
Some of them probably had family who were in the manufacturing business at some point. :thumbup:

Who took those businesses there? :thumbup: I understand that we can help bring back manufacturing here by voting with our wallets but that obviously hasn't yet happened and is actually getting "worse" and will probably continue do so as unless American companies make a change. Throwing shade at this Chinese based business doesn't change anything out there. This argument makes it completely political/racial and not about the knife :thumbdn:
 
Who took those businesses there? :thumbup: I understand that we can help bring back manufacturing here by voting with our wallets but that obviously hasn't yet happened and is actually getting "worse" and will probably continue do so as unless American companies make a change. Throwing shade at this Chinese based business doesn't change anything out there. This argument makes it completely political/racial and not about the knife :thumbdn:

Sadly, complaining because people have political based feelings behind a product based on where it's made is rather disingenuous. What did you expect? This isn't the first time this reaction has been observed. There were a few mentions in the Kizer thread also, as I recall.

Frankly, I see nothing with this Chinese product that I couldn't (and wouldn't) buy from an American manufacturer instead. If others are fine with it, more power to 'em. I'm not going to judge anyone, who cares what I think anyway? :thumbup:

P.S. Not looking to get a big political anti-Chinese discussion going. I merely posted up my own view, and my opinion as to why you were seeing others speak more on the country of origin, than the product itself.
 
Google definition of a custom knife:

"custom knife
web definitions

A knife made to a customer's specifications."

Not like Google is the final word on anything, but that seems to be the general consensus of the definition.

Come on kid, you're more astute than that. Your Loveless knife was likely made to the maker's specifications, but it's considered a custom. Do you know why?

The industry isn't regulated, but the people that decide what is and what isn't a custom knife is the person that makes it, and the people that sell them. Sometimes a maker gets called out or public opinion plays a role in that, but for the most part the industry is cleanly divided into different levels of manufacturer sizes. Search custom knives, and you will see what I mean.

Make 3 lists - make one for production knives, one for custom knives, and one for mid tier (not mid tech. Not every company embraces that term. Instead, there is a space where a company has grown past the point that they refer to their knives as customs, but they aren't to the manufacturing capacity where they've become production, or through a combination of quality, manufacturing processes, reputation or through control of their product cycles and availability, they are able to retain a fuzzy definition about what their product actually is). You don't have to question it - if the maker says that their knives are custom knives, go with it. If they say they're mid-techs, go with it. Then, look at the similarities. You're going to see that the only knives considered production knives are made by production companies. All others will either be customs or mid-tier. Even on Ebay you either list them as Factory Manufactured (made by a large factory) or custom (any knife not made by a large factory). This has been a consensus among the knife industry for a long time now. Only recently has anyone not understood the classifications or questioned it - when a maker moves into the production definition, it has always been in their interest to label their products as so, and I've never heard of them cheating the system. Knives that Emerson makes with his own hands in smaller batches are still considered customs - knives that he puts out in large runs are production. Busse has a custom shop, and not every piece that comes out of the custom shop is made to customer specifications - it's just a different class of their products that are above their production class.

Just think of makers like CRK - they're most definitely production knives by your definition, but until a couple years ago people routinely referred to those as custom knives. Some people like to call them mid-techs now, and there's a lot of reasons why consumers haven't just moved them over to the "production" pile. Fiddleback is producing a couple dozen knives every week - they're using several processes that are also used in modern industry (segregating work, working in batches), they have specific models, and they do not take custom orders - they don't like to refer to their knives as customs either because it implies to some that they will take custom orders, but if you buy one do you put it in the drawer with your production knives, or in the drawer with your custom knives??

The major difference isn't a Google definition, or how many are made, or even how they are made - it's the tier of pricing that the maker can attach their brand. A custom knife, eve when using basic materials, is always going to be a higher priced knife. A mid tech will be slightly cheaper because more employees usually means more efficiency, and more technology usually means quicker production. A full production knife is always going to be the cheapest because a corporation plans product development and production from start to finish, they enjoy the benefits of building large factories and having a large workforce, and using an assembly line. Pretty much, to be considered a production knife it needs to be manufactured by a production company. Spyderco, KAI, Case, Ka-Bar, etc. The knives made by small companies are never going to be labeled production knives, and those companies wouldn't be able to compete if they were forced to adopt that tier of pricing.

If you still don't understand or believe, go to one of the custom knife dealers that deals solely in custom knives. You will see all kinds of knives, made by all kinds of people in all kinds of methods.

Still, Reate needs to give more information before anyone can say what tier his knives definitively fit in. How many employees? What do his facilities look like? What are the manufacturing methods? How much time in each piece? And finally, what are his production quantities and margins. The problem is, with an American maker you would just take it for granted that if they said they were producing at a custom tier, that that was the case. Since this is a Chinese maker, he's being subjected to 10x more scrutiny.

This has been one guy showing off a single knife design that nobody knows where to get anywhere else or hasn't even heard of other than here. What production company operates like that?? It's crystal clear that this is a small operation, and he'd be grouped in with the other small time makers putting out Ti folders that usually sell for 400$-900$. It doesn't even look like he's making these on the scale of Hinderer. It's awful that people are putting up post after post trying to knock the value of the knife without knowing anything for sure, and trying several different angles to knock the knife when the first one doesn't fly. M390 is much more desirable than S35VN in this market, and this knife is 100$ cheaper than the Sebenza. If he doesn't have 30+ employees, he's closer to deserving the 'custom' label than CRK. All of this would be taken at face value if this was an American company, and no one would question it if the knife was $600, or even $800.
 
Google definition of a custom knife:

"custom knife
web definitions

A knife made to a customer's specifications."

Not like Google is the final word on anything, but that seems to be the general consensus of the definition.

That is the definition of the word according to the English dictionary, so why do people keep arguing about this word?

adjective
12.
made specially for individual customers: custom shoes.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/custom?s=t

Why argue that it means something else or more than it does, when it already is an apt description of certain practices in the knife world? A knife made to the customers specifications.

If you get a knife made to your specifications, it's a custom knife. If you sell it, it's a used knife, but since it was made to your specifications, you could advertise that it was custom made for you.
 
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Don't know anything about the guy, nothing much shows up in Google.
Last night it was only FB and here in BF.
Today he has signed up on Twitter and has also pinterested some of his own stuff. He's definitely using social media to establish a footprint.
I wonder why he hasn't sold some of his knives in China or anywhere else? Surely there must be something searchable. Or did he just start the business with the US market in mind?
I know it's hard to break into a field. If it's legit, I wish him luck. But it's a tough market, especially being overseas in a country with an all-around bad rep.

Personally I don't have a problem with Chinese stuff. I got a clone 1911A that is Chinese made and it's accurate as hell.
 
Looks like a nice knife, but will always go for a U.S made knife at that price point usually unless it is a full custom from a European maker like Dalibor or Russian like Shirogorov.
 
This knife shares similar features, but otherwise isn't any less original than dozens of other Ti flippers made in the US. Many of Kizer's knives are far more copy/pasta. It's not usually 'slight' when people call attention to it, but it might be in this case. You can't deny that this knife shares many similarities with many other models though; I don't think it's quite at the point where you can say it's heavily influenced or a blatant copy of another model though.

SpydercoBenchmadekid, this knife is M390, not S35VN.

These knives look extremely well finished, they're also custom - you can't throw out comparisons to Spyderco and ZT knives. If the quality of this custom knife is on par with ZT factory production, there is a real problem. Comparing this knife to Kizer is even more ridiculous - it's clear that Kizer's business model was to make Ti knives with decent blade steel as cheaply as possible, and they're also production knives. M390 is the most desirable steel for a folder this size out there right now, and if this was a custom US made knife it would be 500$+ all day long.

It might be out of the range that most of us are willing to spend for anything from China, but it's not fair to judge their product without actually owning one, or at least handling one. If the F&F is as good as it appears, I think this is a knife that is going to surprise people. If the F&F is as good as it appears, this is the first step to clearing up the stigma that all Chinese knives are crap.

I keep hearing this but I do not understand just who Kizer is copying. The two I have don't seem to be copies of any knives I have seen. Though the Gingrich has a similar look to the SERE, it is not an exact copy of the original. The Klecker is a design all by itself as far as I can tell. I do have a Ki5401A2 coming on Thursday/Friday, a titanium framelock, but I have not seen a similar design to this knife either, especially with the sculpted ti handles and the anodizing. Far from "pasta" in my eye's. But I am interested in knowing who has been copied by Kizer.

Sorry for hijacking.
 
I have nothing against this new Chinese mid tech market. I think this trend of Bearing Flippers is getting over tapped.
For the price I would never even consider it. Kizer has some decent prices. Still don't want one.
But 150$ is what I could consider paying.
I mean in the framelock genre.. Ive purchased
-0550 for $120
- 0561 for $170 like new.
- My Sebenza 21 Large USA all the way with incredibly treated S35 was only $330 shipped like new and still only $410 shipped from anywhere. Not to mention Strider. Finally besides my only knife being a CRK 21. I have the 0562 on pre order and that is 100$ less than this thing. Even look at the TI military from Colorado and all of the great Taiwan pieces by Spyderco for less.
This is leaving all of the Custom knives out of the equation.
Just aint gonna happen for me anyway. Gotta work on that price. Big time.
The knife construction is cool with the lanyard attachment. But the design does not do much for me, kind of generic looking. Like most others. Id call it a ZT/ RJ martin type look. Not anything directly related, just the curves and ergos. Not a bad thing.
Just giving my opinion if that is what you are looking for sir.
It looks like you have put alot of hard work into it , and the work looks top notch. Adding steel spacers against the titanium handle cutouts for the bearings would be a plus as well.
Thank you for coming here and supporting the site with us.
 
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Looks like a nice design, kind of reminds me more of RJ Martin than a zt560 though. So is M390 blade steel that much better than say s35vn to justify the higher price? I do not like the reate logo on the blade. It looks like the letters are spaced differently.
 
It's an attractive design and I like the materials employed. As everyone else had mentioned, with the prices as high as they are you won't find too many people purchasing the knife initially. If the feedback is positive and members here speak well of the quality and craftsmanship then you will have people waiting in line to throw money at you.

I don't feel that the designs are a knock-off of any other design. Does it borrow ques from popular and well known knives? Yes, but so does every knife if you look hard enough.

Good Luck!
 
Found an interesting design under his photobucket pics. What is that blade made of?

 
It seems that like a new Chinese factory,less famous than Kizer(Kizer come from CHina too),But His ambition Bigger than Kizer
Don't know anything about the guy, nothing much shows up in Google.
Last night it was only FB and here in BF.
Today he has signed up on Twitter and has also pinterested some of his own stuff. He's definitely using social media to establish a footprint.
I wonder why he hasn't sold some of his knives in China or anywhere else? Surely there must be something searchable. Or did he just start the business with the US market in mind?
I know it's hard to break into a field. If it's legit, I wish him luck. But it's a tough market, especially being overseas in a country with an all-around bad rep.

Personally I don't have a problem with Chinese stuff. I got a clone 1911A that is Chinese made and it's accurate as hell.
 
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