How Benchmade is sailing away on a boat that KAI somehow missed.

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silverds said:
It was neither, they both kind of failed with a whimper. Meaning the spring back of the lockbar progressively got softer and softer until they just fell off. Similar to bending any metal wire over and over until it fatigues and then just falls apart.
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That's too bad. It's especially terrible given the very limited range of movement of something like a frame lock mechanism. The steel should have more than enough flexibility to cover something like that. Even though you decided against sending either in for warranty service, I'd contact Kai anyway. They'd probably like to hear about this issue (assuming someone else hasn't already brought it to their attention).
 
CraigMang said:
Bloody hell. Can't any topic be discussed here without devolving into a wang measuring contest? Everybody push down the hairs on your backs and just move along if something doesn't appeal to you.

OP, that's an interesting comparison in that the two knives share some similarities, but then, that's part of the fun of this hobby: discovering what appeals to you, finding a better "version" and evolving your tastes.
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Cheers and thank you. My post may have been confusing what with all the themes and comparisons mentioned but overall it was a celebration of my evolving tastes from my first knife, the Uncle Henry Bear Paw. In the service, I carried a Cold Steel CV SRK and found a deal on another new one a couple years ago. The new beginning of my folder collection started with assisted knives, first a ZT0300BW and 3 Kershaw Knockouts, Elmax Brown, then Black and Olive both with 14c28n. Then was the Strobe followed by the fixed blade Diskin Hunter. Then came a series of ZT's most popular flippers, ZT0452CF, ZT0562CF, ZT0450, ZT0808, ZT0454-204P, ZT0560BW and ZT0561. I've had my eye on the new ZT0804CF and ZT0450CF. While looking for stocks of ZT0450CFs to be replenished I caught a glimpse of the Benchmade Crooked River. I actually am expecting delivery of both my Crooked River and ZT0450CF soon. Collecting only ZT's up to this point I am glad Benchmade has caught my attention with the Crooked River. Spyderco has my attention with their Nirvana and Mamba. So I really am getting a kick out of these surprises in my evolving tastes. Contemplating how they've evolved as I did in this thread, is part of the fun.
 
Biginboca said:
Slightly off topic,but I've never seen a frame (or liner) lock fail like that! I'm even more surprised it's on a Kershaw. I can see how the Diskin collabs would have disappointed you but in all fairness there are probably knives in the Kershaw line up and at the Benchmade price point that you might find pleasing.
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On the contrary, I love both the Diskin Collabs. The Strobe and the Diskin Hunter. The Strobes are cheap enough that they were no great loss when they failed and I just assumed my usage (obsessive opening and closing) was outside of the intended design of the model.

My disappointment came from Kershaw and ZT not capitalizing more on the Diskin collaboration with other economy models for Kershaw and premium models for ZT. That is the boat I feel KAI has missed as referenced in my thread title.
 
silverds said:
No sir, 22 posts and I am absolutely getting it. This forum has a bunch of cool folks who want to talk about knifes and a bunch of a$$hats that want to act superior.

Anyone who is offended by my forum title please speak up. I will personally apologize for insulting you.

20 Posts in I mistakenly titled my thread "How Benchmade is sailing away on a boat that KAI somehow missed. "

11,816 posts in you respond to my post with "The knives are not alike at all, and any comparison shows a complete lack of mechanism understanding or aesthetic critical differentiation."

I'm not sure you should be giving anyone forum etiquette advice. That said, your offer to help me get my two knives repaired or replaced is humble and kind and inconsistent with your previous response. Perhaps if that same humility can be demonstrated consistently in your future posts, I will forget we ever had this little tiff. As for being banished from this forum, at this point, I don't feel I would suffer any grief at all. Do your best or do your worst but be assured that at this moment, I couldn't care less.
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Don't get the wrong idea here man. Mr. Garsson knows his stuff. He's actually a knife critic.

It would be like you posting in an art forum that the Mona Lisa reminded you of a Picasso painting.

Things are not always as they seem. Sometimes on this forum you may feel guided by a firm hand, but you are nonetheless guided. I'd highly advise you to talk to the man and see what he has to say.

It's not every day that you get an opportunity to get some of the best advice you could get, from one of the best sources you could get it from.

Best of luck to you sir, and I loved the Guadalcanal emblem.
 
While the designs are certainly different in significant ways I think it's not at all difficult to see the aesthetic similarities in the lines of the profiles. They may not be spitting images of one another, but they do share some common threads, like the arch of the handle that continues into the spine and the elongated sweep of the belly.
 
^^^Came here to say this. I see the similarities, the exact same ones mentioned above. Also I thought it was a good read. I had also forgotten about the Diskin Kershaw, and up until I saw the broken lockbars was going to up it on my wishlist and replace the plastic scales. I still might, but will take my time now that I know there is potential lockbar trouble.
 
Hi Daniel.

I don't see as much similarity as you do between the Kershaw Diskin collaborations and the BM Crooked River, but I acknowledge that we'll each see things from our own unique perspective. No point attacking you for your point of view. My point of view might make no sense to you.

I do share your sentiment on the "missed opportunity" that Kershaw had with the Strobe. More than once I've posted on these fora that I wished ZT had picked up and made a "premium Strobe". I'd have been all over that like white on rice! I have a Strobe and I've had no issues with it, but honestly I don't carry it that much. Once you get used to better knives, it's hard to feel satisfied with so-so steel and Zytel ;). A Ti handled Stobe with milled CF inlays (like the CF on the Spider Monkey...love that texture!) and a decent S35VN steel blade (or better) would've had my money faster than a tax collector.

I really like the Crooked River, but I'm not sure if it competes with its materials and F/F against some very competitive options. I can't see myself paying full price for one...but if a gently used Dymondwood model popped up on the Exchange...

Thanks for sharing your observations.
 
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Don't you just hate it when you compare a $30 knife to a $175 knife and you find out the $175 knife is better?!
 
I also like the look of that knife. I don t mind the aluminum bolster material. Love the axis lock. What s the blade steel? What s the weight?
 
First, nobody is obligated to respect someone who is being unnecessarily confrontational or insulting or demeaning. If they're supposed to be respectable, they should act worthy of respect. I don't care if Stephen Hawking chimed into a physics discussion - if he was being a jerk about it, being unwelcoming and insulting, and unjustifiably asserting some variety of actual authority, he would be in the wrong and others would be right to dismiss his behavior as childishly confrontational and condescending. No amount of professional or academic accomplishment excuses being a jerk.

Secondly, OP, I greatly enjoyed the read and related to it strongly. I too was taken by the design of the Strobe but also found that the best feature was the bearings. I additionally was anxiously waiting for a ZT collab with a 3.75"-ish blade in a similar overall profile. I too was floored by the Crooked River and initially thought much of the visual appeal was due to the classical styling but ultimately found that it had its own unique appeal.

I really hope that we can get to a point where someone can state an opinion that is of no harm or consequence to anyone else without someone being unnecessarily critical or confrontational. This hobby is so varied and vast in what you can appreciate and want and need that it is absolutely ridiculous to be confrontational about an opinion on a tool especially when it stems from personal experience.
 
Scurvy092 said:
Don't you just hate it when you compare a $30 knife to a $175 knife and you find out the $175 knife is better?!
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It's almost like what he was saying, and is alluded to both in the topic title and the initial post, was that KAI should have been the first to market with a similar design as they already had one and an offshoot company that is perfectly equipped for such a production.
 
RevDevil said:
I wonder how much extra Ti bolsters and liners would have added to the Crooked River. I don't see the similarities either, they may be in the same spirit, but they are 2 distinct patterns and cannot be compared "apples to apples". For what the price point is on the Crooked River, I can live with Aluminum bolsters, it would be a working knife after all. The propensity for Aluminum to magnify any slight beating a knife takes has made me dislike the material regardless of how awesome the Type III Mil Spec hard coat claims to be when other choices are available (Ti would have been excellent).
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I had to chuckle at this.

I used to get disgusted with the "magnified beating" aspect of aluminum. Just a couple of days in my pocket with some change and a keyring and the damned stuff looks like I ran over it. But now I pretty much make all of my knives look like that no matter what material it is. Sometimes by running over it. ;) Ti liners might have eased the weight of it a bit, which I always appreciate.

silverds, I know you're not out much with the broken Kershaws and all, but sending them back may help Kershaw solve a material or design problem with this piece.

Funny, I hadn't seen that Crooked River til just now. Guess I best go grab me one of each.
 
Comeuppance said:
First, nobody is obligated to respect someone who is being unnecessarily confrontational or insulting or demeaning. If they're supposed to be respectable, they should act worthy of respect. I don't care if Stephen Hawking chimed into a physics discussion - if he was being a jerk about it, being unwelcoming and insulting, and unjustifiably asserting some variety of actual authority, he would be in the wrong and others would be right to dismiss his behavior as childishly confrontational and condescending. No amount of professional or academic accomplishment excuses being a jerk.
Secondly, OP, I greatly enjoyed the read and related to it strongly. I too was taken by the design of the Strobe but also found that the best feature was the bearings. I additionally was anxiously waiting for a ZT collab with a 3.75"-ish blade in a similar overall profile. I too was floored by the Crooked River and initially thought much of the visual appeal was due to the classical styling but ultimately found that it had its own unique appeal.

I really hope that we can get to a point where someone can state an opinion that is of no harm or consequence to anyone else without someone being unnecessarily critical or confrontational. This hobby is so varied and vast in what you can appreciate and want and need that it is absolutely ridiculous to be confrontational about an opinion on a tool especially when it stems from personal experience.
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Very well said!
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
 
Comeuppance said:
It's almost like what he was saying, and is alluded to both in the topic title and the initial post, was that KAI should have been the first to market with a similar design as they already had one and an offshoot company that is perfectly equipped for such a production.
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You don't find it insulting to the people of Kai USA and their associates that you PRESUME to know what they should have done or not done?

You are aware that the reason that Kai USA no longer has a s/f on BFC was because of the huge amount of posters who presumed to know what the company should have/have not done?

You can decide for yourself if that is "harmful or consequential".

Kai Corp has beat the production and sales expectations of everyone associated with the company year after year without any downturn...popularity amongst a vocal and frankly quite negative, minute segment of the knife community notwithstanding.

I offered to help the op out with his problem requesting an e-mail, which I have not gotten....the successful fixing of the problem would be a reasonable goal to reasonable people would it not?

But that would take away a major part of the reason that the complaint is about, thus denying the attention so gained by like minded individuals.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
OP -

I see the similarities between the knives. There can be no doubt that there is "similarities" between those two knives and most ANY folding knife. You could even stretch that blanket out and say there's similarities between those two knives and most any edged weapon.

I also didn't see a reason for the few posts in this thread and I too would have been a little perturbed.

Don't be too hasty in your decision to write off Bladeforums, though. It's a wonderful environment for knife enthusiasts and is filled with like minded individuals.

I'll also say the same for Kohai999. From my experiences with him he was a gentleman and I'm sure that this can all be chalked up to the lack of inflection in written text and simple misunderstandings.

As for the knives -

The Benchmade models look excellent. I wasn't even aware they existed until viewing them here.

Appreciate the read. I even managed to learn a new vocabulary word! ;)
 
I think the strobe is 3cr13 which is not a very good steel. too bad they don't make one with ti scales, better overlay material and better steel, and 3.5 blade...
 
The Kershaw stable has many more selections than Zero Tolerance. Personally, there are quite a few knives in the Kershaw lineup that I'd like to see as a ZT but the economical logistics just aren't there.

I do see some similarities between the mentioned folders but you could say that about so many other folders.

I very much like the profile and looks of the new Benchmade Hunt Crooked River specially with wood. I'm not a fan of bolsters especially aluminum ones. It's not a small folder but overall pretty slim.
 
silverds said:
Neither of them were ever used to cut anything sturdier than an envelope. The were both primarily hand toys. The steel construction combined with the 410 handles made them the quietest of my flippers so flipping them obsessively was somewhat less annoying to those around me. This made them very fun to play with but they did not hold up to that use.

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Putting aside all the other BS in this thread. OMG^ at those broken lock bars! Never seen anything like that. I heard that a CRKT fossil did this a time or two but that is amazing right there. Complete fail on Kershaws part. I'd be sending them a box with two broken knives expecting an explanation and money back.

I like the looks of the diskin fixed blade. An upgraded version with a good sheath would be cool I'm not a fan of bolsters so the BMs don't really do it for me.
 
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