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How many lemons does BRKT need to accept that something is wrong?

Falcor

Falcor

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Feb 20, 2009
Messages
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There have been a series of Bark River failures recently to the point where 'Send it in and they will replace it' and it must have been a 'lemon' have become a common theme, usually voiced by the fanboys and those who know better. Yeh!

I will let this video speak for itself - and keep in mind that this is a CUSTOM :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ss8NtqEkw
 
That really is too bad. What is the point of having a blade that stout when the edge is that weak?:thumbdn:
 
I had a bravo1 in ghost green jade g10 once that I chopped through a coconut with.
Afterwards the edge looked like it was attacked by a chainsaw.
I couldn't believe it.
I called mike Stewart about it and he said that coconuts are very hard and you should only use the spine of a knife to break open one.
I had no idea they were that hard.
 
WOAH! :eek: That dude is very understandably pissed off. I would be, too. At least it seems like his issue's being taken care of by BRKT, but it's amazing that that blade made it into the retail market with flaws like that...

I've never used A2 in a knife, but given how well A2 holds its edge in plane irons (which tend to have a pretty acute edge angle), it does seem like something went very, very wrong with their heat treat.
 
jeepin said:
I had a bravo1 in ghost green jade g10 once that I chopped through a coconut with.
Afterwards the edge looked like it was attacked by a chainsaw.
I couldn't believe it.
I called mike Stewart about it and he said that coconuts are very hard and you should only use the spine of a knife to break open one.
I had no idea they were that hard.
Click to expand...

I find this interesting because Mike actually is correct here, but what he says is not something that I would consider common knowledge. In other words, I think it would have been easy for him to simply say that coconuts are very hard and nobody in their right mind would do that with a knife, but he didn't. Instead, he offered a little advice as to how to really do it, which, to me, speaks to his knowledge about how hard coconuts really are and what one could reasonably expect from your actions.

So then the next question is--how did BRKT handle this situation and were you ultimately satisfied? Please tell us...
 
Wow I always thought bark river had some classy knives but after this and some of the other horror stories iv read i think I'll pass And stick with esee fixed blades
 
I don't know what horror stories you guys are talking about. I've only seen the same old video being re-posted again and again.
 
It looks like that knife was ground by an amateur. The spine appears "broken" by the grind and the edge and tip are too thin.
 
on_the_edge said:
I find this interesting because Mike actually is correct here, but what he says is not something that I would consider common knowledge. In other words, I think it would have been easy for him to simply say that coconuts are very hard and nobody in their right mind would do that with a knife, but he didn't. Instead, he offered a little advice as to how to really do it, which, to me, speaks to his knowledge about how hard coconuts really are and what one could reasonably expect from your actions.

So then the next question is--how did BRKT handle this situation and were you ultimately satisfied? Please tell us...
Click to expand...










I was extremely satisfied and amazed.
When I sent it in I was sure they were going to have grind quite a bit away to beable to remove all the chips, but when I got it back it looked exactly the same.
I was very surprised, It looked just like new.
 
jeepin said:
I had a bravo1 in ghost green jade g10 once that I chopped through a coconut with.
Afterwards the edge looked like it was attacked by a chainsaw.
I couldn't believe it.
I called mike Stewart about it and he said that coconuts are very hard and you should only use the spine of a knife to break open one.
I had no idea they were that hard.
Click to expand...

It's true; coconuts are very hard, but I open them all the time even using kitchen knives with no problem and no damage to the blade.
The key is technique. You're trying to create a crack around the circumference of the nut, not actually chop it in half.
You use the blade to tap around the nut repeatedly at the seam, and eventually, it pops open.

That being said; those scales are beautiful, but the grind and HT appears to be pretty bad.
Before I watched the video I had a vision of someone doing a full force Karate chop to slice a chopstick on a ceramic plate or something,
but rolling the blade barely push-cutting a chopstick....wow.
Hope they can make things right for you.
 
I still look at certain facts here. Listen to the guy in the video, the grind is too thin.
There is no reason to write off all Bark River's products
 
"this is b*** ***T!!!" lol

watching this video just makes me love my moras more and more :)
 
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The same thing comes up so often lately, so I decided to make a little video about similar knife.

After reading about BRKT Fox River, Recluse and watching the video about that custom posted above, I decided to make my own video to prove the point.

The point is: I really don't think it has much to do with heat treatment or anything like this, it's all about edge geometry. BRKT grinds knives thin. There is no doubt about it. How bad or good that is depends on the person who uses the knife. I would say grind on some knives is too thin for general public. Some people get upset about it, when they get unexpected results. Paper thin edge shown in the video above can be a bummer and I understand the user being upset about it. But in many cases people make a huge deal out of it, when issue can be easily rectified or avoided entirely. Thin edge is a problem - sharpen the knife to a more obtuse angle. I'm not surprised at all that some people roll/chip/damage the 10 degree edge (maybe even less). It is very easy to damage such a thin edge, but in most cases it is not a big deal either. Sharpen it to ~30 and your done. I think the problem is that many people don't know how to sharpen knives. If one wants to use a knife, sharpening skill needs to be developed. Sharpening a new knife straight from the factory is kind of odd thing also, though many people do this on regular basis thinning the edge. In some cases the opposite is required. I also think that Bark River needs to sharpen most knives designed for "bushcraft" to a bit more obtuse/tougher angle to avoid such surprises.
... And it is always a good advise to test the gear in controlled environment first, to avoid any surprises later.

So back to my video.
I own BRKT Manitou. The thickness in the specs is 0.205 inch. Indeed the blade is a lot thinner, because it tapers a lot along the blade length. I have done a profile cast and measured thickness in this thread:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784777

BRKT-Manitou-profile.jpg


As you can see the blade is thin. Edge is amazingly thin also ~ 10 degrees inclusive.
This is a hunting knife and it is supposed to cut flesh and soft materials. 10 degree edge is superb cutter, but probably is an overkill. Such edge can be used perfectly fine with some care, but it is not tough.

I have used my Manitou to cut some hard wood. Sure enough, checking the blade after some cuts, revealed some rolls on the edge. I was totally expecting that.
I have sharpened this knife to a bit more obtuse angle (20-30) and made a video. Problem is solved. Wood that I was cutting was very hard, I specially chose those hard pieces. I think I crapped my pants (kidding) at some point trying to cut it. No rolls, no chips. Edge holds up great. It still is thin, but the very tip of the edge is more radiused and is thicker than it was before.

Here are two parts. Sorry about the mumbling. This is my first video and only one so far.
Sound is also messed up a bit and gets out of sync further in the video, but it's not too bad :)

[YOUTUBE]aj3iTNw2qBQ[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]aeAVnAnACHM[/YOUTUBE]
 
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I once ordered canadian special with stag handles, and the edge had microserration and the handle was cracked. I talked about this with person who owns lots of barkies, and he said that Mike wondered why anyone would want something as unstable as stag to start with. Interesting philosophy for sure.

I returned the knife, and with all these stories, Im not going to be doing that mistake again.
 
They ship knives at 10 degrees inclusive!

Someone pinch me, I think I died and went to heaven.
 
Warren Osbourne, from the June 2010 Bladesports newsletter

Since the beginning I have always used the convex or apple seed edge on all my cutters. Not being able to see as well as I used to (best excuse I can offer) I ground my last two knives a little too thin, to about .015 of an inch.
Generally a cutter that thin with a convexed edge will tend to wrinkle or chip due to lack of support for the edge.
One of these knives was for Gary Bond who hits extremely hard. I’ve always struggled finding an edge that would cut but not wrinkle for Gary. Consequently he has been at a disadvantage edge wise.
With these very thin knives, instead of convexing the edges after the initial bevel, I just put a straight single bevel on each side with
about a 14 degree angle.
Both of these knives hold up really well; actually the best I have ever had. They don’t chip or wrinkle (yet), cut like crazy and deflect less than any knife I’ve used.
So my conclusion so far is that a knife can be thinner, hold up better and deflect less when using a flat secondary bevel than the convex edge I have used previously.
Note: this really only works on very thin edges, as far as cutting ability. Convexing a very thin edge serves to diminish support. A thick edge like .025 of an inch will not cut as well due to the thicker shoulder causing a more compressed cut.
Click to expand...
 
-Ranger- said:
It's true; coconuts are very hard, but I open them all the time even using kitchen knives with no problem and no damage to the blade.
The key is technique. You're trying to create a crack around the circumference of the nut, not actually chop it in half.
You use the blade to tap around the nut repeatedly at the seam, and eventually, it pops open.
Click to expand...

Just a side note - I open coconuts without any knife. If you hold it with the ridge facing down, a hard smack against concrete will split it right in half.
 
Search the Good Bad and Ugly forum for "Mike Stewart". Buyer beware.
 
GGinMP said:
Just a side note - I open coconuts without any knife. If you hold it with the ridge facing down, a hard smack against concrete will split it right in half.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip; I'll have to give that a shot. :thumbup:
 
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