How public are you with your knives?

[b yond]

I've carried a fixed blade in public quite a bit. I was always responsible with it and always used it appropriately, and never had an issue.

I've had two people get weird about my folders, but I think those people would have reacted to just about any knife and I choose not to let their irrational fears define me or the tools I use.

IMHO we cannot let those who misuse knives represent the rest of us. The public needs to see knives being used responsibly.



Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[22-rimfire]

....Way to display your abject lack of understanding of how and why laws are created. Wow.

That is interesting actually for those of us that like to analyze things. Sometimes there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the wording of laws and they are written by people who really don't understand the restriction choices. But I suspect in relation to knives, laws generally try to restrict the weaponization of knives routinely (daggers for example) carried by defining a maximum blade length, cutting edges, or the deployment action (switch blades and so forth). Then there is the concealment thing in CA and why that was done.

With the newer knife designs, the definitions are getting a bit blurred. Hence the reason that Knife Rights has been trying to get the laws changed to allow more legal choices.

 

[Ironbut]

Walmart IS the testing ground for all kinds of things whether it be the carrying knives or guns.

And some at Walmart are very grateful if you offer to cut the tags off the clothing that they're about to shoplift.

 

[r8shell]

Boy am I glad your not in charge! I don't want to be forced to drive a Corolla or have to have farming credentials to drive my truck or Suburban....are you sure you live in Texas with those kind of comments. The corolla wont pull the boat to the lake very well or the low boy trailer.

Just in case I confused you with sarcasm: I was using the example of cars to demonstrate the absurdity of authority to declare what is "necessary"

Perhaps I have no "need" to carry certain tools or drive certain cars, but I have a "want" and as long as it isn't illegal, why shouldn't I? It's called "Pursuit of Happiness."

 

[AreBeeBee]

Having read through 21 pages of ... spirited discussion, let's say .... I have two thoughts. First, if you want to regulate knives by blade length for whatever reason, you're going have to outlaw home kitchens having anything bigger than a paring knife, if that. (And if you go down that road, do you have any conception how much damage you can do with an oyster-shucker? Ban them too!)

Second thought — and much more important — I don't trust governments to regulate wisely. They choose criteria that are visible or quantifiable simply because that makes their task easier, not because what they choose is well thought-out. And they're thoroughly dishonest about their motives: a great deal of revenue raising passes under the figleaf of safety.

But the biggest problem of all is that regulators have no sense of limits. They acknowledge no STOP signs. Each encroachment is always justified as "commonsense" — and stands as prelude to even tighter "commonsense" encroachments. In short, I and many others have discovered that the term "commonsense" in the hands of a regulator is equivalent to that 10-inch screwdriver in the hand of the punk in a dark alley.

As for personal carry, I make sure that those around me never know what I'm carrying. That's just basic operational security. As someone said up-thread, I'd rather what I'm carrying comes as a total surprise to a troublemaker, if such a situation arises. Meanwhile, I do unlimber the Vic Classic from time to time, as needed for simple tasks. It has never been a contentious point among friends and co-workers.

 

[22-rimfire]

Just remember, Walmart prosecutes shoplifters and most of the store has camera coverage. Wife left her wallet thing lie at a hospital. In moments it was gone. In less than an hour, the assumed thief purchased gas and bought merchandise at Walmart. Dumb on the Walmart thing. Walmart covered the loss directly. But they prosecuted the person standing twice in the checkout lane using stolen credit cards. It was all digitally recorded. Judge.... guilty as charged....

 

[shinyedges]

Just in case I confused you with sarcasm: I was using the example of cars to demonstrate the absurdity of authority to declare what is "necessary"

Perhaps I have no "need" to carry certain tools or drive certain cars, but I have a "want" and as long as it isn't illegal, why shouldn't I? It's called "Pursuit of Happiness."

Exactly. Well said.

 

[Quiet]

That is interesting actually for those of us that like to analyze things. Sometimes there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the wording of laws and they are written by people who really don't understand the restriction choices. But I suspect in relation to knives, laws generally try to restrict the weaponization of knives routinely (daggers for example) carried by defining a maximum blade length, cutting edges, or the deployment action (switch blades and so forth). Then there is the concealment thing in CA and why that was done.

With the newer knife designs, the definitions are getting a bit blurred. Hence the reason that Knife Rights has been trying to get the laws changed to allow more legal choices.

The fact that they are and have been, so successful could be taken as a clear sign that the legislators know these laws are unreasonable, and don't have any sound rationalization behind them.

In whatever case, it can be said with certainty that those laws weren't passed because the lawmakers wanted to make it "uncomfortable" to exercise your rights, so you'd stop doing it.

 

[texmex03]

Just in case I confused you with sarcasm: I was using the example of cars to demonstrate the absurdity of authority to declare what is "necessary"

Perhaps I have no "need" to carry certain tools or drive certain cars, but I have a "want" and as long as it isn't illegal, why shouldn't I? It's called "Pursuit of Happiness."

Yes I missed the sarcasm....I saw that written and couldn't believe someone from the traditional forum would type something so crazy.

You can be in charge again!

 

[chopchop]

I've carried a fixed blade in public quite a bit. I was always responsible with it and always used it appropriately, and never had an issue.

I've had two people get weird about my folders, but I think those people would have reacted to just about any knife and I choose not to let their irrational fears define me or the tools I use.

IMHO we cannot let those who misuse knives represent the rest of us. The public needs to see knives being used responsibly.


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I think this is the crux of the problem. In general, the public is either fearful or unconvinced that knives are useful in everyday life. Knives are then used less conspicuously to avoid issues with the public. And the feedback loop continues. So, we do need to use the knife as a tool, just as unashamedly as you would use a screwdriver or a hammer or an umbrella.

The catch is that there are now a million little gadgets and packaging innovations that play the role a knife used to play. It's hard to convince people of the *necessity* of carrying a knife if you struggle to find uses for one... cleaning nails, opening potato chips, avoiding use of a readily available plastic knife. etc

And arguments about personal enjoyment don't seem to carry much weight with the public when it comes to knives. Apparently, "because I like it" is less convincing for a knife than for a watch, even though a watch is completely unnecessary in most modern circumstances.




Edit to add: The most common public use I have for my knife is to cut up food for my kids. We often split things up, and it's easier just to cut them myself, cut some packaging for a little plate, and go for it. It used to take the other parents by surprise, but now they know I'm the guy who can cut that odd thing for them. No big deal.

 

[Velitrius]

I think this is the crux of the problem. In general, the public is either fearful or unconvinced that knives are useful in everyday life. Knives are then used less conspicuously to avoid issues with the public. And the feedback loop continues. So, we do need to use the knife as a tool, just as unashamedly as you would use a screwdriver or a hammer or an umbrella.

The catch is that there are now a million little gadgets and packaging innovations that play the role a knife used to play. It's hard to convince people of the *necessity* of carrying a knife if you struggle to find uses for one... cleaning nails, opening potato chips, avoiding use of a readily available plastic knife. etc

And arguments about personal enjoyment don't seem to carry much weight with the public when it comes to knives. Apparently, "because I like it" is less convincing for a knife than for a watch, even though a watch is completely unnecessary in most modern circumstances.




Edit to add: The most common public use I have for my knife is to cut up food for my kids. We often split things up, and it's easier just to cut them myself, cut some packaging for a little plate, and go for it. It used to take the other parents by surprise, but now they know I'm the guy who can cut that odd thing for them. No big deal.

I like this post, I can relate to a lot of it.

Especially the part about being the guy with a knife. Why pack one when we know good ol' Vel has two or three of them handy.

I live in rural Washington. We have many farmers, loggers and fishermen. We cut stuff, so folks are used to people cutting stuff.

I've given many knives away to folks who didn't have one. Most times it's appreciated, and I hope I've made a few knife users along the way.

 

[b yond]

It just seems so strange to me that we've ended up here as a society. Knives are some of our oldest tools, and now a lot of people are afraid to carry and use them for fear of what others may think. Portions of our society have become unaccepting of the tool, blaming these inanimate objects for things done with them by bad people.

It perplexes me that we've arrived at this point, and concerns me that our society could continue down this path.

 

[craytab]

And because you say the alternative of a folder is not good enough for you, that carries more weight? What he says is basic common sense. It isn't the 1830s wild west in most urban places anymore... For the overwhelming majority, there is absolutely no rational justification for an openly carried fixed blade in an urban setting... The reason the law asks you to carry a fixed blade openly is because the law wants it to be uncomfortable for you to do so... The law makers just never figured that some are so oblivious to social standing and public perception that they would still go through with it...

Gaston

Sorry Gaston but you are so very wrong. I am reminded of what Esav said about you not long ago:

The worst trolls don't just spread misinformation. They spread dissension. I might as well close this thread, now that Gaston444 has trashed it.

His knowledge of steel is worthless, but his babbling will sink into new members consciousness, distorting their learning.

We are on the verge of removing another troll.

Gaston, more often than not you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[22-rimfire]

Gaston, more often than not you have no idea what you are talking about.

I do like his Randall's.

 

[ichor]

It perplexes me that we've arrived at this point, and concerns me that our society could continue down this path.

Get used to it. Knife Rights or not.....its only gonna get worse.

 

[Jens Schuetz]

Sorry Gaston but you are so very wrong. I am reminded of what Esav said about you not long ago:



Gaston, more often than not you have no idea what you are talking about.

It's probably not the intention of the law but that it has this effect is hard to deny.
If I'm forced to open carry fixed I'd prefer a folder due to feeling uncomfortable but also because fixed open carry is not very practical for me.
I visit schools every day due to my kids and change my pants frequently. Attaching and removing sheaths to belts all the time bugs and I'd prefer to just drop a small fixed knife in and out of my pocket but since that would be concealing it I can't :-(
Thus I've to stick to folders and take care that no fruit juices get into the pivot and remove pocket lint and what not.
First world problems I guess.

I agree the more people open carry the more normal it would be perceived.
The fewer carry the more negative impact that one crazy guy who doesn't use it as a tool could have on people's minds.
Either way do I want to be the trendsetter or do I wait for everybody else to open carry fixed blades?

 

[cricketdave]

I was talking to my daughter last weekend, she's at Ft Sam Houston in San Antonio for a class. Out of 130 officers in the field for 4 weeks only one had a pocket knife. It was used many many times, cutting paracord, opening MRE's, all of the things you use a knife for. I sharpened it up for her while I was there. About 2/3rds of the class showed up for the next few weeks of field time with brand new folders.

 

[chopchop]

It's probably not the intention of the law but that it has this effect is hard to deny.
If I'm forced to open carry fixed I'd prefer a folder due to feeling uncomfortable but also because fixed open carry is not very practical for me.
I visit schools every day due to my kids and change my pants frequently. Attaching and removing sheaths to belts all the time bugs and I'd prefer to just drop a small fixed knife in and out of my pocket but since that would be concealing it I can't :-(
Thus I've to stick to folders and take care that no fruit juices get into the pivot and remove pocket lint and what not.
First world problems I guess.

I agree the more people open carry the more normal it would be perceived.
The fewer carry the more negative impact that one crazy guy who doesn't use it as a tool could have on people's minds.
Either way do I want to be the trendsetter or do I wait for everybody else to open carry fixed blades?

I think it will only be perceived as normal where there is an accepted *reason* for it.

As an analogy, just a couple of years ago I went into a store in St Louis looking for a map of the city. The cashier was amazed that anyone anywhere would even consider using a paper map for anything. Why would you, when you could just use the gps on your phone?

Similarly speaking, why would you use a knife when you can just use the pre-packaged, pre-cut, pre-sliced, pre-perforated goods that are all around you? If you take away the utilitarian purposes of a knife, thereby making everyone's life "better," then what is left for it to do? Either look pretty or be a weapon? That is the framework that many people seem to be coming from.

If you can do something good with the knife, and people see you do it or see the outcome, then the light comes on, and they think, "oh that's why." One or two little wood carvings goes a lot farther to ease people's minds than a neatly sliced bag of potato chips.

 

[22-rimfire]

I haven't used a knife in years to open a bag of potato chips or similar salty snack. Interesting what people do. I would like to see the knife-less people break down boxes or cut zip ties. Scissors? But then, THEY think the employer should provide those things.

A lot of people do view knives as weapons, especially large knives or what we call tactical looking knives.

I was talking to my daughter last weekend, she's at Ft Sam Houston in San Antonio for a class. Out of 130 officers in the field for 4 weeks only one had a pocket knife. It was used many many times, cutting paracord, opening MRE's, all of the things you use a knife for. I sharpened it up for her while I was there. About 2/3rds of the class showed up for the next few weeks of field time with brand new folders.

Interesting that a lot of the students showed up with knives after they saw the utility. Converts for life, perhaps?

 

[chopchop]

I haven't used a knife in years to open a bag of potato chips or similar salty snack. Interesting what people do. I would like to see the knife-less people break down boxes or cut zip ties. Scissors? But then, THEY think the employer should provide those things.

Scissors or box cutter supplied by employer does indeed seem to be the general idea. I also see the stomp and tear methods. Not as elegant but eventually effective.

Many of the shipping boxes for smaller items only have one glued seam these days. Open tape with a key, pull seam apart by hand, and fold flat.

A lot of people do view knives as weapons, especially large knives or what we call tactical looking knives.

Outside of machetes or leukus and cooking/butchers/fishmongers knives, I'm hard pressed to think of large knives (>8" blade) that aren't designed primarily as weapons.

I was talking to my daughter last weekend, she's at Ft Sam Houston in San Antonio for a class. Out of 130 officers in the field for 4 weeks only one had a pocket knife. It was used many many times, cutting paracord, opening MRE's, all of the things you use a knife for. I sharpened it up for her while I was there. About 2/3rds of the class showed up for the next few weeks of field time with brand new folders.

No fair going out in the field!

Converts for life, perhaps?

Hopefully so!