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How should I handle this?

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by UDDwaine, May 16, 2018.

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  1. UDDwaine

    UDDwaine Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    HI – I sold a knife here on the forums back in in Dec. But, I am not sure what to do about this one, and would like the thoughts of the community here.

    This started in Dec and progressed over the past couple months, but the conduct of the buyer has me concerned for his ethics on this forum and with others.

    The purchaser sent me a PM after he got it that said he wanted to return it. He said that “There's an area on the knife (on the non-logo side, about half an inch from the edge) with what appears to be smoothing. I could see it in your pictures, but I thought it was due to the lighting. I would like to send it back. I'm probably pickier than most, and I don't want to you to lose money because I'm picky.”

    I feel that I accurately described the knife, and sent it half way across the country to him and it arrived quickly, and as advertised. While I get that Amazon and Zappos offer free returns - I am not a store, and I believe that I advertised the knife accurately ( backed up by an independent web sales site, see later) and provided good photos for buyers to make a decision. He never asked for, and I did not list an inspection period, or for a return if he just did not like it, or felt that he could not resell it for enough of a profit once he got it.

    I have been on the forums for some time, and have always described everything I sell accurately and take numerous pictures (as my feedback shows). I did not remember anything out of the ordinary with the knife at all – so I looked at my original high resolution pictures from my laptop, as well as the ones I posted on the forums and did not see anything at all in the pictures like the buyer mentioned.

    When I asked the buyer to send me a picture of the issue, he circled an area in one of my pictures and did not send a picture of his own. I can not see any difference in the color or anything in the picture he sent unless I tilt my laptop screen in various directions, and I see the color change around the blade as I do this. When he sent that picture, the buyer then said something different. This time he said “It's just an area of the coating that doesn't have the same finish as the rest of the knife. The sheen is different, almost as if it had rubbed against something, making it smoother than the rest of the coating, or maybe the coating was just inconsistently applied.

    This changing of stories started to make me question his real agenda, and think this is more a case of buyer’s remorse vs. something real. And, his story kept changing in each interaction we had.

    In that same message, he also said that “I don't think you misrepresented the knife, or even missed spotting a defect. I own about 60 Busses, half of them from the same time period as this one. I'm well aware of the variations you sometimes see from the shop“. After I said that I was not OK with him sending it back, because even his own words showed that I sold and delivered what I advertised.

    He then listed the knife on eBay a couple weeks later. In his ad he used my pictures as well as 2 more of his own, all of which show nothing wrong with the blade. He also listed it on eBay as New. And, the definition of New in eBay is “New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item (including handmade items). “

    Two months later he emailed me again when the knife did not sell on eBay for approximately $200 more than what he paid me - and claimed that the knife is “defective” (while he still had it listed on eBay as NEW). And, what made it even worse, IMO, is he also said “The best place to sell this would be on Bladeforums, but I couldn't list it there without fully disclosing its condition, and doing so would adversely affect both the selling price and how quickly it would sell. You, since you made no disclosure in your listing, don't see a defect and would be able to repost it without a disclaimer.“ So, he insinuated that I should try to sell what he deems a damaged/defective item on these forums as New. I found that very insulting, yet telling.

    When I again said I would not accept a refund, particularly after he advertised this as new and it was 3 months later, he was not happy, and said he would send the knife to an independent knife sales site for them to sell.

    That site inspected the knife and listed it exactly as I did – Excellent, and no signs of use or sharpening. Their highest rating for a blade that came from a third party, and not direct from the manufacturer is excellent. They noted that there was no issue with the blade, and their pictures also show no issues.

    Thankfully the rude and profane communications have now stopped. But, this experience has made me very leery.

    NOTE - I have the links to the eBay sales and the other sales site saved, and also have the PMs and emails that I quoted from if a Mod would like to see them.

    Last edited: May 18, 2018
    Mike Pierson likes this.
  2. laurin

    laurin Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 5, 2007
    This is unbelievable story I'd tell - but I'm long in this business so (unfortunatelly) I believe it.
    Seems buyer bought it with intent to sell for a profit and if it not happened he simply want money back from you and not take a risk at all.
  3. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    Personally I try to go by unless both sides are content just return the knife and refund ... so long as the knife is unchanged unused and unaltered in anyway while in the buyers possesion ... it's just good faith between members ... but sadly not all members deal in good faith ...

    But if he attempted to hold it this long and list it for resale at a profit ... I would say it's his now and most likely it is buyers remorse or he thought he could flip it for a good profit.

    So I would be in the same position as you as of now ... since the deal wasn't immediately undone and knife returned in the same condition and a refund sent ... and all the rest that has gone on I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

    Hold onto all your PMs and email or any communications in case you need them to prove your side.

    Hope it all works out.

    Mike Pierson likes this.
  4. Mossyhorn

    Mossyhorn Enlightened Rogue Platinum Member

    Dec 6, 2009
    That's a real nightmare. Just curious, what was the buyers feedback record?
  5. palonej

    palonej Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Aug 5, 2015
    Seems he bought it with intent to sell it for a profit........sometimes it doesn’t work out.
    Seems like buyer’s remorse, without hearing the other side.
    Also curious to see his feedback and if he’s a long time member.
  6. RayseM

    RayseM Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 18, 2010
    Save your documentation of this "exchange" - tell us the perps name so we can all put him on IGNORE - move on. :confused:
    Meanwhile, I'll wait for the Netflix version. :D

    Mike Pierson and Mo2 like this.
  7. Suttree1

    Suttree1 Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 29, 2015
    He listed it to ebay, so it is his to deal with.
    Mike Pierson, bonky, uxo2 and 2 others like this.
  8. 91bravo

    91bravo Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 2008
    I'd never give a refund on a knife I sold 6 months ago. Especially after they tried selling it on the bay for $200 more. Sounds like buyer's remorse and for him to request a refund after all this time, is just ridiculous. If I get something that wasn't advertised, I contact the seller on the day that I receive the knife and make arrangements immediately. Not six months later....

    I wouldn't worry about it, it's their knife to deal with as they please now.
    Mike Pierson, Phill50, bonky and 3 others like this.
  9. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    I would have granted the original refund-no matter how ridiculous, and have. If he wasn't happy with your decision he should have pressed it then and filed a PP claim or brought it here. Months latter and after attempting to sell it for a profit with no disclosure =no chance.
    It doesn't sound like you misrepresented the knife, and even though I would have refunded immediately, it is not something I enjoy doing when there really is no issue. I have no idea of his motives, but would prefer not to deal with this person-so a name would be helpful.
  10. brancron

    brancron Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 14, 2011
    Just as a side note, I can't wrap my head around why someone would be concerned with a small spot of "smoothing" (whatever that is) on a knife that's meant to chop through logs, cinder blocks, etc.
    Mike Pierson, jux t, palonej and 3 others like this.
  11. Foghorn Leghorn Fan

    Foghorn Leghorn Fan Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 27, 2011
    :thumbsup::thumbsup: That would be quite helpful !
  12. UDDwaine

    UDDwaine Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Sorry, been tied up with work this morning, on lunch break now.

    The buyer's username is PeteH.
    Mike Pierson likes this.
  13. UDDwaine

    UDDwaine Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Hi Peter - If there were something wrong with the knife, or I had misrepresented it, I would have sent a refund immediately. My feedback here on the forums is really important to me.

    However, when the buyer asks for a refund, and in the same message says that " I don't think you misrepresented the knife, or even missed spotting a defect" I had to wonder, why was he asking for a refund. It seemed to me more like a case of buyer's remorse. And I do not feel responsible for that.

    When I said no to his request for a refund, he then said "OK. I'll have to decide what to do" - so I though that was the end of it. Then I got another message 2 months later where he claimed the knife was defective. And when researching I found that he had the knife listed on eBay as new, for a higher price than he paid - even though he was now claiming it was defective.

    He lost all credibility with me when he said that I should take it back and sell it here on the exchange as new - because he could not. Yet he had advertised it as new on eBay.

    Mike Pierson, moshow9, bonky and 2 others like this.
  14. Mossyhorn

    Mossyhorn Enlightened Rogue Platinum Member

    Dec 6, 2009
    I see that he stood up for Liu Kang, that's enough for me to avoid him. Thanks for getting this out there.
    Mike Pierson, bonky and Armadew like this.
  15. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    Well that isn't going to be hard to remember. I am PeterH on other forums.
    Everyone please take note THIS IS NOT ME
    dealda, mycough, Mike Pierson and 9 others like this.
  16. RayseM

    RayseM Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 18, 2010
    I can understand the desire to return a knife if once in hand I regret the purchase (have been there too often :confused:) BUT, unless this was from a dealer or a custom knife maker - I would never make my regrets the seller's problem.

    Question then - if you, the seller, end up refunding a knife because the buyer has regrets - not because you misrepresented it - who pays the return S&H? :rolleyes: AND - if the buyer is casual enough to toss a knife back for a full refund just because he decided it wasn't for him (and now he is paying for the return) what guarantee does the original seller have that his knife will be returned in a properly packaged box and insured as it should be? NONE! Likely it isn't going to be cared for whatsoever by the returner.

    OH - another question - do you refund after you receive the knife and have a chance to inspect it (solves some of the issues with the shipping question above) or does the returner expect to get his money first?

    Deep in the quagmire here :(.

    I'm with the OP. I would not have issued a refund as I understand the developments of this scenario. My 2¢.

  17. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    I can just say how I do it.
    If I feel I am at fault in any way, I pay the return shipping. If I think it is just buyers remorse, they can pay it(I'm already out shipping 1 way). Knife has to make it back to me in the condition it was sent for a refund and I will tell them that. If he files a PP claim(never had one by being proactive) it follows the same process as buyers remorse.
    On the flip side-I don't return knives for small and insignificant problems. I just re-sell with disclosure. I have only returned 1 knife .
    Taking knives back that don't have a problem is a bit of a grey area. Some resist it, but if they file a PP claim you will have no alternative but to take it back. Others like me go by the deal isn't done until both parties are satisfied. I have received very few back(think 3 out of hundreds of transactions over the years and settled on a few more-buyers remorse send them back, people who want the knife seem to settle) and have no problem reselling them. I loose so much on this hobby that a couple more bucks to keep the peace doesn't matter much.
    and I will go to extremes to avoid PP claims and GBU threads in my name. I like to handle my problems myself.
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    palonej and benchwarmer380 like this.
  18. JJHollowman


    Jul 16, 2016
    Six days: yessir, sorry you're unhappy, refund coming ASAP.

    Six Weeks: Hmm..OK, stuff happens, send knife in current state and you pay shipping. Upon inspection refund will be issued.

    Six Months: Enjoy your knife, Sir. sorry, no refund will be issued.
    Triton, uxo2 and joeradza like this.
  19. annr

    annr Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 15, 2006
    I agree. Something like this happened to me. I sell a product that comes in 2 versions--one is the default option and the other requires selecting from drop-down menus/extra clicking.

    My customer ordered the special selection (that is impossible to order by accident), and I shipped that item to her. She was irate that I sent the one I sent (the one listed on her PayPal receipt) and wanted to exchange the product. I agreed to a return just to avoid the headache (knowing that I might not be able to resell it). I didn't even bother negotiating an inspection by me because she was so unreasonable.

    She returned the item in a priority flat rate envelope with no extra tape. By the time the item arrived, the envelope was splitting at the seams; there is a huge gash across the front of the item and the corners are bent. I can no longer sell it as new. (She did pay for the return shipping. I issued the refund, and that was the end of that.)
    Mike Pierson likes this.
  20. RayseM

    RayseM Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 18, 2010
    Thanks for the insights (you 3 above ^). Points well made, good strategies, and very gracious resolutions. I don't know if I would
    be so restrained. I will learn from you folks :thumbsup: :)

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