I want to know the truth.......

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I didn't know Randall wasn't considered custom as per BF description. I would agree with you 100% though that it should.
 
Is even limited production of a handmade knife even a custom knife? I think not. A custom is a one-off custom made for a particular buyer and his needs, desires, or specs.
 
leghog said:
Is even limited production of a handmade knife even a custom knife? I think not. A custom is a one-off custom made for a particular buyer and his needs, desires, or specs.
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This is where they stuck the term - HANDMADE in on you/us..... It's like Custom Motor Cycles, even though they are not building a certain bike for a certain customer, to they're specs. It is still considered a custom bike. Why? Because it was hand made from scratch, and is one of a kind. So it is a custom bike....

If a maker is going to use a mill, water jet, CNC or monkeys to make his knives. That's fine, Just make sure not to produce them in large quantities, and NOT tell me they are custom made.

Here is a chart I made up just to give you an idea how I see it. I know this is NOT even close to accurate, but it should give you an idea what I'm talking about.
Look guys, I'm no knife expert, I do not know everything, not even close. But I do know what I know and it's really got me scratching my head, why it is this way? Everyone has an opinion, let us hear what you think? It won't hurt.......:)

This just to give you an idea, it's not totally right, you tell me were it should be changed? Or should we just let it keep mixing together?

knivesZZXX.jpg




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Going on a guess, but the reason they are in production is that they make a large quantity of knives that are the same. I don't know a ton about the models, but I believe some have been made in larger numbers.
Just my guess!
 
personally I only support true custom knife makers. I like to know that my money is going to pure human craftsmanship and not the engineering of a machine.
 
I agree with the mods tho productions and midtechs should be together and customs separately as rightly so. The fine line is that if they are being outsourced to be machined then they are mid techs or productions. If the maker machine the parts in house even with a CNC as long as he wrote his own coding and such that for me is still a custom because the maker put his own sweat even to code the CNC. If somebody not else did the coding or even the CAD then that's not a custom in my eyes.
 
how can you call it a custom though when a CAD is involved? even if you code it yourself, the machine is shaping the steel, not your skill and power.

custom imo only applies when they fold the steel down themselves and handle every aspect of the process all the way to the finish, by hand. Otherwise you produce steel that is soulless and you can feel the dead, lifeless blade in your hand. when it is crafted with care, it comes to life.
 
Gehazi said:
how can you call it a custom though when a CAD is involved? even if you code it yourself, the machine is shaping the steel, not your skill and power.

custom imo only applies when they fold the steel down themselves and handle every aspect of the process all the way to the finish, by hand. Otherwise you produce steel that is soulless and you can feel the dead, lifeless blade in your hand. when it is crafted with care, it comes to life.
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I had the same thought as you 100% until I visited Grimsmo shop. He literally stands by the machine does his own coding and make sure it does everything right. When I saw that I felt he was still inputting his sweat to the process even tho he wasn't really drilling and grinding what the CNC was doing per say. You cannot say he wasn't putting his soul into every bit the machine was doing. He stood by the CNC the whole time it was running to make sure it was perfect as he coded with his own hands. That to me is still custom work...maybe a different kind of custom but by far not a production scheme.
 
You can split hairs down to the sheath work or even does the smith smelt his own blooms from ironsand.
It's all about the makers transparency and what YOU want.
JMO.

Doug :)
 
Gehazi said:
personally I only support true custom knife makers. I like to know that my money is going to pure human craftsmanship and not the engineering of a machine.
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So you don't care about young collectors making bad choices because of a misleading industry? Or those hard working makers trying to do it by hand and learn the craft, but other type of knives are squeezing into their market as customs?
Not being hateful here, just trying to get people here to THINK!

Wait till the 3D printer technology catches up and someone starts printing out knives - are we going to call those custom made.
He had to program the printer.....:eek::D
 
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Al,
Thanks for starting this thread, hopefully it will get a few people thinking.
Knives range from being a tool to an absolute work of art and possibly an investment.
I own one of kind handmade custom knives and also factory made knives.
I buy what I like and know how they were made, where they were made, and who made them.
For some users and collectors, maybe this is not important as in the future they will be focusing their thoughts elsewhere.
But some will look back at that knife they bought and realize it wasn't made how they imagined after the hype fades.
I think Ken Onions previous post that You included in this thread says it best.
 
Pellel2 said:
I agree with the mods tho productions and midtechs should be together and customs separately as rightly so. The fine line is that if they are being outsourced to be machined then they are mid techs or productions. If the maker machine the parts in house even with a CNC as long as he wrote his own coding and such that for me is still a custom because the maker put his own sweat even to code the CNC. If somebody not else did the coding or even the CAD then that's not a custom in my eyes.
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^ This is the how customs should be seperated from mid-techs and production knives.

Technology is here to stay, and there is nothing wrong with that. There will always be makers that use a more traditional approach, and if that is your definition of a custom, then a little research will ensure you are buying a 'hand crafted knife'

Curtiss knives under Pellel2's definition are in the custom bracket, and knowing what I do about Dave, I agree..
 
Doug C said:
You can split hairs down to the sheath work or even does the smith smelt his own blooms from ironsand.
It's all about the makers transparency and what YOU want.
JMO.

Doug :)
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You are missing my point - Why are some in customs and others are not? Like I said, really don't care how they are done.
Curtiss & Randall are both producing a hand made knife - Tell me why Curtiss's are custom and Randall's are not?

THAT is what I want to know? this is not me, it's the knife market, I'm not splitting hairs, just looking at facts.
 
Pocketknifesheaths said:
So why are Randall's not in customs? Same definition......
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I think he is but I don't know who are you looking for to confirm that?!?! I like this topic tho it makes good debate ... I love curtiss to the teeth he is an awesome awesome guy and he takes great care of his customers but I have thought of his knives as midtechs sometimes...I don't think if people agree to the fact that his knives are customs or midtechs makes him less of a knife maker tho and a true contributor to the knife community as he has been the outsource for many uprising makers for his water jet services and know how knowledge. From I have read he has always been willing to give young knife makers a hand in their careers.

I am just talking about these two makers since you keep referring to them.
 
RecalcitrantAmerican said:
A Bo Randall hand ground knife is without a doubt a custom knife. I agree 100% with you sir. Bo left us in the late 1980's after 50 plus years of making fine knives.

The Randalls today are made by a group of about 20 men making the 3rd generation of Randall knives. That is the part open to discussion and individual interpretation.
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I have a question. Are Randall knives made through the late 80s considered different than those made later? :confused:
[URL=http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/blackhorse71/media/a8e27676-c098-4c0e-b225-d627c7b47d1d_zpse89adbd6.jpg.html][/URL]
 
Pellel2 said:
I think he is but I don't know who are you looking for to confirm that?!?! I like this topic tho it makes good debate ... I love curtiss to the teeth he is an awesome awesome guy and he takes great care of his customers but I have thought of his knives as midtechs sometimes

I am just talking about these two makers since you keep referring to them.
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You can NOT post a Randall knife in Bladeforums under the Custom Hand Made discussion area. They will move it.
You can NOT post a Randall knife in the custom for sale by individuals here, they will move it.......
THAT"S FACTS - They DO NOT consider Randall's knives to be customs here - go and ask them in the custom area, and see what they tell you.
 
The same could also go with Blind Horse Knives, they are in production. I believe most of there knives are handmade. The same could go for Entrek knives, they are handmade and still in production area!
 
Gehazi said:
how can you call it a custom though when a CAD is involved? even if you code it yourself, the machine is shaping the steel, not your skill and power.

custom imo only applies when they fold the steel down themselves and handle every aspect of the process all the way to the finish, by hand. Otherwise you produce steel that is soulless and you can feel the dead, lifeless blade in your hand. when it is crafted with care, it comes to life.
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I'm not going to imply what is custom or not but many custom makers on the forum farm out the heat treat process to others.
 
I own some nice FACTORY MADE KNIVES that I ENJOY as much as my HANDMADE CUSTOM KNIVES.
But, the factory made knives are not custom just because they have hands on labor.
How is a blade that was cut with a programed water jet considered different from a blade cut from a programed stamping machine ?
There is a thick line drawn between a custom handmade knife and a production knife with some hands on labor.
 
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