If a knife is very expensive you will choose to buy fake?

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I'm not going to pay $1000 or whatever for a semi-custom (aka production) Hinderer, but I might pay $40 for a Chinese knife that looks like it and is obviously fake. Is such a knock-off stealing Hinderer's intellectual property? Probably, but thats debatable. Does it take any money out of Hinderer's pocket? Of course not, because Hinderer isn't selling $40 knives. I almost bought one after Nutnfancy's review of them, but chickened out when I saw the Chinese website.

I'll be honest here. It takes a lot of chutzpah to charge that much for a CAD/CAM knife that doesn't cut open a box any better than - and likely not as good as - a Spyderco Delica, and that just gives me a bad vibe about the whole genre of multi-hundred dollar production knives. I don't blame Hinderer for charging the insane prices that the market (and the inflated secondary market) will bear, and I don't blame anyone for spending their hard-earned money however they see fit. Neither of those are any of my business because I don't buy or sell Hinderers. But when you charge $550 for a production knife, and people actually buy it, then a $40 knock-off is sure to follow.

Though I own a Strider and 4 CRK's, I still think that genre of knife - and certainly the more spendy Hinderers - are a rip off. So it really doesn't bother me any when someone buys a Chinese knock-off costing $40. Its obviously not the real thing, and obviously not hurting Strider, CRK or Hinderer in the wallet because no one buys a $12 Sanrenmu instead of a $440 Sebenza.

So I have no prob with cheap lookalikes that cost 5% of the real thing and are obviously not the real deal. The only knife I own in that category is a Sanrenmu, and my purchase did not reduced CRK's revenue that year.
 
powernoodle said:
I'm not going to pay $1000 or whatever for a semi-custom (aka production) Hinderer, but I might pay $40 for a Chinese knife that looks like it and is obviously fake. Is such a knock-off stealing Hinderer's intellectual property? Probably, but thats debatable. Does it take any money out of Hinderer's pocket? Of course not, because Hinderer isn't selling $40 knives. I almost bought one after Nutnfancy's review of them, but chickened out when I saw the Chinese website.

I'll be honest here. It takes a lot of chutzpah to charge that much for a CAD/CAM knife that doesn't cut open a box any better than - and likely not as good as - a Spyderco Delica, and that just gives me a bad vibe about the whole genre of multi-hundred dollar production knives. I don't blame Hinderer for charging the insane prices that the market (and the inflated secondary market) will bear, and I don't blame anyone for spending their hard-earned money however they see fit. Neither of those are any of my business because I don't buy or sell Hinderers. But when you charge $550 for a production knife, and people actually buy it, then a $40 knock-off is sure to follow.

Though I own a Strider and 4 CRK's, I still think that genre of knife - and certainly the more spendy Hinderers - are a rip off. So it really doesn't bother me any when someone buys a Chinese knock-off costing $40. Its obviously not the real thing, and obviously not hurting Strider, CRK or Hinderer in the wallet because no one buys a $12 Sanrenmu instead of a $440 Sebenza.

So I have no prob with cheap lookalikes that cost 5% of the real thing and are obviously not the real deal. The only knife I own in that category is a Sanrenmu, and my purchase did not reduced CRK's revenue that year.
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So to summarize you are fine with other companies profiting off of stealing other peoples designs as long as they are in a different price range than the original. I guess that makes most of the Chinese intellectual property thefts ok because everything they produce is in a different price range than the real items.
 
Some of the claims here concerning copying are simply invalid.

Stifles innovation? What better impetus for improvement than knowing others are nipping at your heels? It is excessively restrictive patent laws that stifle innovation, because you can rest on your laurels. Pharmaceutical companies do it all the time.

Cuts into manufacturer's profits? Rick Hinderer sells every knife he makes, if he doubled production he would still sell every knife he could make at whatever price he chose to set. Even the secondhand market, where a $400 knife suddenly doubles or triples in value because of restricted supply and high demand, isn't affected by copies, because anyone who is paying that sort of price for a knife will make very sure that it is genuine.

Copies allow people who don't have the means to obtain the genuine item to experience something of the original. Ironically that's often why they exist in China where people like American products, but don't possess the financial means to obtain them. They can also be very good products for the price. The Inron MY803 is clearly inspired by the Hinderer (although of course no one would mistake one for the other) but videos I've seen on YouTube show the Inron subjected to quite horrible abuse and coming out of it needing just a clean and a sharpen. If it does break, well, that's $15 down the drain.
 
I won't buy a true "counterfeit" knife, but I don't have any problem with using knives that incorporate features from different companies.
 
I personally don't buy knock off's, or imitations, but to be honest they will always be around.
 
Yep. For every person who won't buy knockoffs there are countless others who will without so much as a second thought.
 
Ive NEVER bought a fake knife.. whats the point??? Your not getting the quality that you would if you bought the real deal... screw cheap knock-offs....
 
No I won't. This is my hobby.i don't think I would enjoy it as much, or at all, going down that path.

I suppose if it was a knife I had to have and didn't have the money, I would find a way to afford it by saving or selling another knife.

If a knife is too expensive to me, I'll live vicariously through the pictures posted on here.
 
powernoodle said:
I'm not going to pay $1000 or whatever for a semi-custom (aka production) Hinderer, but I might pay $40 for a Chinese knife that looks like it and is obviously fake. Is such a knock-off stealing Hinderer's intellectual property? Probably, but thats debatable. Does it take any money out of Hinderer's pocket? Of course not, because Hinderer isn't selling $40 knives. I almost bought one after Nutnfancy's review of them, but chickened out when I saw the Chinese website.

I'll be honest here. It takes a lot of chutzpah to charge that much for a CAD/CAM knife that doesn't cut open a box any better than - and likely not as good as - a Spyderco Delica, and that just gives me a bad vibe about the whole genre of multi-hundred dollar production knives. I don't blame Hinderer for charging the insane prices that the market (and the inflated secondary market) will bear, and I don't blame anyone for spending their hard-earned money however they see fit. Neither of those are any of my business because I don't buy or sell Hinderers. But when you charge $550 for a production knife, and people actually buy it, then a $40 knock-off is sure to follow.

Though I own a Strider and 4 CRK's, I still think that genre of knife - and certainly the more spendy Hinderers - are a rip off. So it really doesn't bother me any when someone buys a Chinese knock-off costing $40. Its obviously not the real thing, and obviously not hurting Strider, CRK or Hinderer in the wallet because no one buys a $12 Sanrenmu instead of a $440 Sebenza.

So I have no prob with cheap lookalikes that cost 5% of the real thing and are obviously not the real deal. The only knife I own in that category is a Sanrenmu, and my purchase did not reduced CRK's revenue that year.
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A) You don't think Rick gets money for every Cryo sold? So if people buy a fake $40 Hinderer instead of the $40 Cryo then they are IN FACT taking money out of his pocket.

B) How can you call a Hinderer 'more spendy' than a CRK or Strider Knife? The MSRP is almost exactly the same. It's not his fault people the secondary market is so out of whack. Are you going to start crucifying ZT because people are reselling the 0777 for over $1000?
 
Scurvy092 said:
How can you call a Hinderer 'more spendy' than a CRK or Strider Knife? The MSRP is almost exactly the same.
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Seriously? I don't meet Rick's eligibility requirements to purchase directly from the factory. So you show me where I can buy a brand new Hinderer XM-18 at MSRP ($385.00) and after I buy it, I'll send you a $100 finder's fee. :rolleyes:
 
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Buying a fake isnt a gray area. It is a designed owned by someone else, if you buy a fake you are buying from a thief and are no better than that thief. It doesn't matter if its a $40 version of a $1000 knife, that doesn't justify your actions. You are still buying stolen property, you are still supporting an industry that steals from others. Anyone who buys a fake I have no respect for. Anyone who buys a fake then brags about it and promote it is a Douche bag and a few other words I can not say.
 
Aw, come on man. Tell us how you REALLY feel. ;)

To me, a knife is a knife. It's not a political statement. It's not a moral dilemma. And it's definitely not a reason for me to get my knickers in a twist. It's just a knife. YMMV.
 
bld522 said:
Seriously? I don't meet Rick's eligibility requirements to purchase directly from the factory. So you show me where I can buy a brand new Hinderer XM-18 at MSRP ($385.00) and after I buy it, I'll send you a $100 finder's fee. :rolleyes:
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Go to a knife show and enter the lottery...
 
BobSig said:
Buying a fake isnt a gray area. It is a designed owned by someone else, if you buy a fake you are buying from a thief and are no better than that thief. It doesn't matter if its a $40 version of a $1000 knife, that doesn't justify your actions. You are still buying stolen property, you are still supporting an industry that steals from others. Anyone who buys a fake I have no respect for. Anyone who buys a fake then brags about it and promote it is a Douche bag and a few other words I can not say.
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You tell 'em Bob :thumbup: :D
 
I don't think these knock-offs are taking money out of Hinderer's pockets. What's taking money out of his pockets are the dealer mark ups and people who pays secondary prices.. A certain group of people buy at $400 (average) retail. The dealers of sells at 100% over factory retail, that's not even dealer price! hence secondary market is taking money out of Hinderer. Don't tell me it's a supply and demand thing and Hinderer can't do anything about it: One would bump up production to control inflation, and if that's not possible increase dealer price.

Scurvy092 said:
A) You don't think Rick gets money for every Cryo sold? So if people buy a fake $40 Hinderer instead of the $40 Cryo then they are IN FACT taking money out of his pocket.

B) How can you call a Hinderer 'more spendy' than a CRK or Strider Knife? The MSRP is almost exactly the same. It's not his fault people the secondary market is so out of whack. Are you going to start crucifying ZT because people are reselling the 0777 for over $1000?
Click to expand...
 
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