If they're going to retire 15V, Maxamet, and Rex 121, what are they going to replace them with?

I’m not sure who “they” is in this hypothetical but if it’s the industry at large, something else will come along. Unless we all go and pick a new hobby, as it’s hobbyists who drove the steels in question, in knife applications anyway.

I’ve been really enjoying Z12 Ultra. I haven’t done much with it yet but at 64/65 HRC I’m told it holds an edge better than 10V while also being tougher. And I hadn’t even heard of it until one of my favorite makers started using it. There’s always a bigger fish.
 
SharpBits said:
As I understand it, the technology is not easily copied otherwise we would see it elsewhere.
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Interesting. I don't know anything about the real demand for such specialty steels either.

I would suspect that the Chinese wouldn't do small batches anyway if there wasn't enough money in it. But that's just a guess.
 
katguy said:
IMO, these are niche steels that don't have any reasonable real-world use cases and they don't need replacing. Sort of like having a special Corvette that only comes out of the garage for an occasional Sunday drive around town. It's not really useful (other than for collecting).

S90V, S110V have great edge retention and decent toughness and there's lots of models to select from. If you think you really need a knife with better edge retention than S90V, I would suggest you buy a utility knife with switchable blades.

These steels are too hard to machine and process, too hard to sharpen, too brittle for many tasks, too expensive... good riddance IMO.
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i just want a knife that i can use for a long time and not have to sharpen often. the more you sharpen, the more your knife wears down, right?
 
MarbReds said:
I’m not sure who “they” is in this hypothetical but if it’s the industry at large, something else will come along. Unless we all go and pick a new hobby, as it’s hobbyists who drove the steels in question, in knife applications anyway.

I’ve been really enjoying Z12 Ultra. I haven’t done much with it yet but at 64/65 HRC I’m told it holds an edge better than 10V while also being tougher. And I hadn’t even heard of it until one of my favorite makers started using it. There’s always a bigger fish.
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Your favorite maker had very little to do with that steel being available. Zapp started selling ASP 2053 as a blade steel under their branding and he bought it. It was available in sizes for knives and promoted to the makers. The hobbyists aren’t “driving” things like that, they are the recipients. https://www.zapp.com/fileadmin/_doc...ing_steel/zapp/us/Zapp-Knife-Line-Card-US.pdf
 
MarbReds said:
I’m not sure who “they” is in this hypothetical but if it’s the industry at large, something else will come along. Unless we all go and pick a new hobby, as it’s hobbyists who drove the steels in question, in knife applications anyway.

I’ve been really enjoying Z12 Ultra. I haven’t done much with it yet but at 64/65 HRC I’m told it holds an edge better than 10V while also being tougher. And I hadn’t even heard of it until one of my favorite makers started using it. There’s always a bigger fish.
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I think Zapp's data shows 10V is tougher at the same hardness.
 
Larrin said:
Your favorite maker had very little to do with that steel being available. Zapp started selling ASP 2053 as a blade steel under their branding and he bought it. It was available in sizes for knives and promoted to the makers. The hobbyists aren’t “driving” things like that, they are the recipients. https://www.zapp.com/fileadmin/_doc...ing_steel/zapp/us/Zapp-Knife-Line-Card-US.pdf
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You’re correct. If I was unclear, perhaps it’s better phrased that I would never have heard of the steel if a maker I follow hadn’t started using it.

But I do think the demand for new/interesting/“super” steels has to exist in the consumer.
 
marcus aurelius said:
Not what I expected.

It looks like they were making them use the same knife. Is there an open category where you can choose your own knife steel and type?
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they look the same but they arent. all custom made to certain specifications requirements. think like auto racing rule books......kinda like f1 car type differences...not easy to always see.......but they are very different in the details within the rules.
 
They're all using different knives.

1. Maximum knife size specifications:​


  • Blade Length – 10″ (measured from the front of the handle to the blade tip)​

  • Overall Length – 15″ (measured from the back of the handle to the blade tip)​

  • Blade Width – 2″ (measured at the widest part of the blade)​

  • Blade and Handle Thickness – No restrictions​


2. From the plunge cut at the ricasso through the knife tip must be a single plane. No swells or bulges are allowed.​


3. False edges and grinds along the spine to reduce weight or drag are allowed.​


4. Added weights forward of the handle are not allowed.​


5. No holes in the blade forward of the handle will be allowed except for integrals where the blade is measured from the plunge line. The lanyard hole can be placed to the rear of the plunge line which would be in the guard or ferral on an integral.​


6. All Handles must have at least 1 visible pin or tube that passes through the handle material and tang.​


7. All Knives must have a secure lanyard hole with a sturdy wrist lanyard. BladeSports International, Inc. event officials may disqualify any knife if the lanyard system, in any way, presents a safety hazard.​


8. The Osborne Safety Lanyard is recommended.​


9. All Knives must have a sturdy sheath to be allowed in the event area.​


10. It is recommended that knives be built with a full or a full tapered tang. Hidden tang designs are acceptable with the following restrictions:​


  • Only tangs that have been drawn soft to eliminate brittleness are to be used for hidden tang designs.​

  • The event officials at any BladeSports International, Inc. gathering may ask questions to determine if hidden tang knives meet specifications.
    Due to the possible loss of strength in the tang area a lanyard must not pass through the tang on a hidden tang knife, unless it is an extended tang behind the hand grip area.​

  • All hidden tang knives made with air hardened steels should be submitted to the Board for approval before a competition.​


11. No part of the handle (or guard) shall extend further forward than the rearmost part of the cutting edge.​


12. All knives must have been tested prior to competition.​


13. All knife design features are subject to the approval of Officials.​


14. Production Knives:​


  • A knife will be considered a “production knife” if more than 20 of the same design are manufactured commercially by a BladeSports International, Inc. sponsor in a 1-year period.​

  • Two (2) finished models and one (1) heat-treated blade blank must be sent to a designated BladeSports International, Inc. official for testing prior to approval.​

  • Production knives must conform to all current BladeSports International, Inc. knife specifications.​

  • Each approved production knife will have a certificate designating it as a tested and approved model.​


BladeSports International, Inc. accepts no responsibility and gives no guaranties for the performance of any knife. Knives that are submitted must successfully pass a number of extreme tests before the design is approved.​

 
jbmonkey said:
they look the same but they arent. all custom made to certain specifications requirements. think like auto racing rule books......kinda like f1 car type differences...not easy to always see.......but they are very different in the details within the rules.
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Yeah F1 cars look the same because they are all solving the same problem. And the longer those rules are in force the more alike the cars get.
 
Danke42 said:
Yeah F1 cars look the same because they are all solving the same problem. And the longer those rules are in force the more alike the cars get.
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doesnt really work that way. every year the rules get changed a bit and every 4 or 5 years there are major rules changes in designs and such.
 
jbmonkey said:
doesnt really work that way. every year the rules get changed a bit and every 4 or 5 years there are major rules changes in designs and such.
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Year to year the get more the same. Then when they do the major reset things get a bit wild west when everyone has to find new ways to cheat.
 
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