If they're going to retire 15V, Maxamet, and Rex 121, what are they going to replace them with?

[jbmonkey]

Year to year the get more the same. Then when they do the major reset things get a bit wild west when everyone has to find new ways to cheat.

I wouldnt say that at all. they have measurements ranges they have to hit so they are never gonna be very far off visually on a quick look over. the 4 to 5 year major overhaul of rules is on purpose to shake the tree.

course this isn't a good thread for that discussion...I was making a point to show why the knives look mostly the same. we already got warned yesterday to move on......so we kinda should on this topic......

 

[Ron Texas]

Balanced steels are the future.

 

[Blues]

But the balance will continue to progress as well...and tomorrow's "five" in a category might have been considered an "eight" in today's chart. (Just as an example.)

I'm no metallurgist so I'm not in a position to quote numbers. But I know a guy...

 

[Wowbagger]

Interesting. I don't know anything about the real demand for such specialty steels either.

I would suspect that the Chinese wouldn't do small batches anyway if there wasn't enough money in it. But that's just a guess.

I became awar of a video or two last year or so , probably posted here , that showed interviews talking about how the steel industry in China was in serious trouble and several mills were closing and or cutting back .

Some times , looking at the seriously good quality of practically free knives coming out of China , I have to wonder if they do this just to mess with us . Operating at a loss .

 

[MarbReds]

10V = Zapp A11 so I don't think that tells you about 10V. I'll try to find the data, but it was a while ago when I last looked at it.

I could be confusing myself but the figures on the first page are compared to A11.

 

[marcus aurelius]

I became awar of a video or two last year or so , probably posted here , that showed interviews talking about how the steel industry in China was in serious trouble and several mills were closing and or cutting back .

Some times , looking at the seriously good quality of practically free knives coming out of China , I have to wonder if they do this just to mess with us . Operating at a loss .

Having worked in China in the past, I can say with some certainty that it is difficult to get a handle on the state of any industry in China at any given time without being on the ground and knowing people that don't have a reason to lie to you. The CCP is always lying about how great everything is. There is an entire group on YouTube now that makes vids about how everything in China is crashing. I'd imagine that the truth is somewhere in between, with some steel production operating at a loss.

I would be interested to know if the Chinese have any use for steels like 15V or Rex121. And if they are difficult to make, then would they even bother? I'd bet they focus on steel for construction and shipbuilding.

 

[EatingSarma]

I think we are spoiled in the knife community to have the steel choices we do! Maybe we will see more K390 etc… Spyderco is the best in the business at giving us so many flavors of steel! I’m sure they are staying ahead of the curve and going to find ways to get us cool steels.Maybe Bohler or Carpenter will do a collab steel like SPY27!

They disonctinued serrated K390 Endura, Endela and Delica, wharncliff versions too... also K390 Leafjumper completely axed, also now rumors about Dragonfly being axed too, and Stretch 2 being next to go... K390 is slowly going out too... sadly...

 

[Wowbagger]

Having worked in China in the past, I can say with some certainty that it is difficult to get a handle on the state of any industry in China at any given time without being on the ground and knowing people that don't have a reason to lie to you. The CCP is always lying about how great everything is. There is an entire group on YouTube now that makes vids about how everything in China is crashing. I'd imagine that the truth is somewhere in between, with some steel production operating at a loss.

I would be interested to know if the Chinese have any use for steels like 15V or Rex121. And if they are difficult to make, then would they even bother? I'd bet they focus on steel for construction and shipbuilding.

Thank you for the first hand perspective and heads up about the YouTubers .
As I recall REX 121 is used in tool bits to machine other materials .
15 V Shawn could tell you about better than I .
I suppose I could go look in Larrin's book . . .

aaaannnnnd we're back !
CPM 15 V is a Cold Work Die Steel .
So they probably have use for it .

REX 121 is a Super Highspeed Steel developed in 1999 . Meaning it is a steel that CUTS other tough materials at previously unheard of rates .
I'll bet they are using that . They turn out more stuff faster than any one else on the planet thanks to us moving all our tooling over there in the '90s .
I better stop before I get "the look" from the mods .

 

[Wowbagger]

I'd bet they focus on steel for construction and shipbuilding.

And Teslas .

 

[DeadboxHero]

Muh toughness

Dropped the geometry on the SOG fast hawk


420 stainless at 51-53rc

Limbed a small branch



Edge chowdered up when this thin; no strength.


Geometry, geometry, geometry.

If the steel is too soft, it's ability to run thin geometry is limited. It needs more thickness to reinforce the edge so it doesn't fail plastically.

I'm sure the cracking resistance is higher, but at the edge the high toughness material translates to what looks like chipping even though it's deformation, also none of that is going to strop out.

This is normal and it's fine, just sharing a reality check for some readers (No one in particular) Since folks seem to want to make the high carbide, high hardness stuff "the boogeyman" and high toughness stuff as invincible.

Nah.


Honestly, most everybody here buys both kinds of steels. They are awesome and do different things. I don't know why we like to pretend like we only do one or the other, but it's fun to argue on the forum isn't it?

TL;DR

MY EDGE CHIPPED, WHAT STEEL DO I NEED NOW?!

 

[Maximumbob54]

They disonctinued serrated K390 Endura, Endela and Delica, wharncliff versions too... also K390 Leafjumper completely axed, also now rumors about Dragonfly being axed too, and Stretch 2 being next to go... K390 is slowly going out too... sadly...

Fingers crossed that MagnaMax really does make K390 obsolete.

 

[Dagoth_Blur]

I simply whittled a stick with my Manix 2 15V BBB and it chipped the blade to hell. I had to completely reprofile.

That is not normal. I think everyone with 15v will attest to that.

 

[jmj3esq]

That is not normal. I think everyone with 15v will attest to that.

It may not be normal, but it happened for sure. 15V is not tough enough. It sacrifices its toughness with maximum edge retention. It will cut cardboard and rope all day long, but if you use it hard that blade will chip. Same thing happened to my S110V Manix 2, it chipped very easy.

 

[patrickguignot]

It will cut cardboard and rope all day long, but if you use it hard that blade will chip.

You wrote you simply whittled a stick. That's not hard use and that's why it's not normal.

 

[DeadboxHero]

 

[Delgadonine]

Thats basically every supersteel on the market going extinct. I understand retiring Maxamet but 15V seems like knife companies being allergic to making money.
Apparently 15Vs are very hard to make and not commercially viable anymore. If they have the tools I don't see why they cant just start making them again but I'm no metallurgist.

I know Magnamax is entering the market but thats only 63 hrc and I don't think it even comes close to Maxamet. M398 also feels underwhelming. I don't think I've ever seen a Z-max blade.

Buy what you can, use what you buy.

Even Larrin doesn't know his favorite rendition of a potato. French fries?

It's about budget.

Share with us your experience with the steels you buy and use. And recipes involving potatoes.

 

[SACBALLZ]

Having worked in China in the past, I can say with some certainty that it is difficult to get a handle on the state of any industry in China at any given time without being on the ground and knowing people that don't have a reason to lie to you. The CCP is always lying about how great everything is. There is an entire group on YouTube now that makes vids about how everything in China is crashing. I'd imagine that the truth is somewhere in between, with some steel production operating at a loss.

I would be interested to know if the Chinese have any use for steels like 15V or Rex121. And if they are difficult to make, then would they even bother? I'd bet they focus on steel for construction and shipbuilding.

china almost certainly would find utility in steels like those, and almost certainly already has them or an analogue to them. They were originally developed for industrial application in cutting tools and dies etc, China is very advanced in this aspect and it would be almost impossible to be such without at least an analogous option to these steels. Bare in mind they have a CIA too, and remember how we built the SR71. So for these applications, I am sure Chinese intelligence has various shell companies set up to obtain these steels and get them into China for industrial uses. Or they could be straight up buying them above board, I have no idea what sort of regulation or restriction applies to exporting those types of materials.

 

[SACBALLZ]

Thats basically every supersteel on the market going extinct. I understand retiring Maxamet but 15V seems like knife companies being allergic to making money.
Apparently 15Vs are very hard to make and not commercially viable anymore. If they have the tools I don't see why they cant just start making them again but I'm no metallurgist.

I know Magnamax is entering the market but thats only 63 hrc and I don't think it even comes close to Maxamet. M398 also feels underwhelming. I don't think I've ever seen a Z-max blade.

HRC only matters in context of the performance at a given HRC. It might *only* be 63hrc(which in itself is not true, the hrc is going to vary wildly), but if it's getting k390 edge retention at ~67-70hrc, then I don't care what the number is.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

You wrote you simply whittled a stick. That's not hard use and that's why it's not normal.

It’s maybe not “hard use,” but there is lateral pressure on the blade…which could cause it to chip.

 

[SACBALLZ]

It may not be normal, but it happened for sure. 15V is not tough enough. It sacrifices its toughness with maximum edge retention. It will cut cardboard and rope all day long, but if you use it hard that blade will chip. Same thing happened to my S110V Manix 2, it chipped very easy.

15v is plenty tough enough for use in a folding pocket knife. way beyond what is reasonably required.