If you are a Knifemaker....then be a Knifemaker

Here is a quote from Spark that mentions advertising:

BladeForums.com is supported by members who have paid subscriptions. These different subscription levels offer various perks and benefits. As such, only certain membership levels may advertise items and services for sale on this site. Below are some general guidelines as to what priviledges each membership has within this area. Put it another way, without the appropriate level of paid subscription, you may not advertise or sell on this site. Period. No excuses.

One problem I see is the definition of advertising is not clearly defined by Spark. Not having a clear definition by Spark leaves the definition up to interpretation by other people. Sparks definition is what matters and is the definition that should be enforced.

Chuck
 
^ and one must take care not to throw the babies out with the bath water.

Spark has said that he doesn't come into ST much. Perhaps he is not aware of the value of these people? I figure if they're not actually selling and are staying in ST, they're not hurting anything. Their presence here is a positive to me. And while they may not pay to support this site, I do and I want them here. And I think most paying members here would agree.
 
Here is a quote from Spark that mentions advertising:

BladeForums.com is supported by members who have paid subscriptions. These different subscription levels offer various perks and benefits. As such, only certain membership levels may advertise items and services for sale on this site. Below are some general guidelines as to what priviledges each membership has within this area. Put it another way, without the appropriate level of paid subscription, you may not advertise or sell on this site. Period. No excuses.

One problem I see is the definition of advertising is not clearly defined by Spark. Not having a clear definition by Spark leaves the definition up to interpretation by other people. Sparks definition is what matters and is the definition that should be enforced.

Chuck

It seems pretty straightforward....
Is it so hard for adults to understand what constitutes advertising and what doesn't?
At any rate, it isn't up to individual members to interpret the rules. It is up to Spark and those he entrusts with the operations.
If you feel the rules are too ambiguous, a simple thread in service and support asking Spark to clarify will suffice.
 
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^ and one must take care not to throw the babies out with the bath water.

Spark has said that he doesn't come into ST much. Perhaps he is not aware of the value of these people? I figure if they're not actually selling and are staying in ST, they're not hurting anything. Their presence here is a positive to me. And while they may not pay to support this site, I do and I want them here. And I think most paying members here would agree.

How many ways can it be said before people understand?
All are welcome to post, regardless of membership.
All are welcome to be helpful, regardless of membership or notoriety.

If you wish to advertise yourself, by your postings, pictures, wordings or via links or wording in your profile or statements that you are a knifemaker anywhere....please do the right thing and support the site, with a nominal appropriate membership.
 
Is it so hard for adults to understand what constitutes advertising and what doesn't?
Why is it hard for you to provide a definition of the rules you enforce?

Also, why make an insulting post? Please discuss without making insults or aspersions to peoples maturity level.

Chuck
 
Why is it hard for you to provide a definition of the rules you enforce?

Also, why make an insulting post? Please discuss without making insults or aspersions to peoples maturity level.

Chuck

You were linked to the definitions.
It was a question.... If it is taken as an insult or others read into it what is clearly not there.....
 
I spoke with Kevin about this at a hammer in this summer. He left for different reasons, not the picture issue. I won't speak for him, but he definitely stated he left for other reasons.

Warren, I've spoken with Kevin regarding this as well. The photo was the final straw - his words:

Despite numerous requests to stop in again since I have moved on, I still hesitated even to follow a link to this thread. My hat’s off to Nick for being a bigger man than I am and coming back for an attempt at a constructive conversation. Curiosity, not expectations, got me to read this thread, but when I saw it was on its third page and still constructive in nature, I decided to post.

I can’t speak for others, but for myself I can say God bless newbies and their questions, because I believe that newbie’s questions are what these forums are all about. Perhaps it is the teacher in me, but I prefer to be where I can be of help, and nothing spurs conversation more than newbie questions. Think about it, if you are like me when you are around friends on your same level in the business, you talk about cigars, scotch, music, movies, jokes, etc… but rarely do you talk about methods or technical aspects of knife making; it is boring and what is the point you already know what each other will say. It is only when a new maker approaches you with good questions do you talk about knifemaking. So please don’t segregate or under-appreciate the new guys, they are the life blood of these forums and the future of our craft.

I can give you the reason why I had to leave BF in one word- stress. I hate conflict, I just want to help people, and losing friends or making enemies for no good reason sucks greater than anything I have experienced in my adult life. There were days when I got a sick feeling in my stomach just pressing “enter” at this site, because I knew only grief would result. Most people come to these places for fun. I wished I could say that, but when I experienced that level of anxiety I knew I had a different incentive and that was my desire to help others, but there comes a time when your own physical and mental well-being needs to come first.

I would like the opportunity to clarify why, and when, I left BF. I joined BF in 2003 and until late 2008 it was my favorite site on the internet. But then I became the target of endless, intentional , harassment by new members who felt my metallurgical data was a threat to their approach to knifemaking. I was not met with countering data or attempts at valid arguments, just insults and nonsense like posting song lyrics to derail any thread I participated in.

Now let me be very clear about this, by themselves such people would never be able to keep me from helping folks, but when I could get no help whatsoever to stop the trolling I was no longer able to participate as I once did. I had a membership but let it lapse because I was unable to use it when eventually even a single post by me would destroy any thread as soon as my participation was noticed by certain individuals. In the following year, in which I was not active here, a new rule was put in place about posting images without a membership. I have NEVER liked posting stuff about myself or my knives on forums where I wanted to help with education, my philosophy is that advertising and sales tend to taint unbiased information. But I had been asked repeatedly to post my work to help establish that I can do some of what I talk about. So as I was leaving for the blade show, with a knife that I already had sold several times over, I posted an image here in total ignorance of the new rule.

When the violation was brought to my attention I can assure you that I felt sicker about it than anybody, but before I could remove the image (I was at the Blade show), a series of vicious personal attacks had been made against me by some familiar faces. The final insult was when someone who should have stopped the flaming (not Stacy) basically called me a freeloader for not having a membership. Between no hope of being able to post in peace, and the numbers of those who once were appreciative of any help I could give but now valued the outrageous behaviour of the other side more, I realized that despite my willingness to help, Bladeforums no longer had a use for me, and I moved on.


In the past, sites like this made changes in advancing our craft like I never expected to see in my lifetime, I guess that is probably worth saving. I wish you folks all the luck.
 
You were linked to the definitions.
It was a question.... If it is taken as an insult or others read into it what is clearly not there.....

Don't be absurd - of course that was incendiary.

Regardless, there have been many fine points made in this thread, and the other that was closed to posting. Is there any possibility that this entire thread might get moved to support, if in fact you feel that's where these voices might be heard?

NO ONE has tried to make this a pissing contest - we're merely stating our observations and opinions, in hope of making Spark's forums a better place for all.

What's so hard about understanding that?
 
As a non-knifemaker with an interest in knives and metal working of all kinds, I miss reading Mr. Cashen's informative posts as well as admiring his work.

In my opinion, and short of allowing them to sell without advertising or act in the manner that Tai Goo did before his banning, Bladeforums would be better served by working to foster an environment where makers of Mr. Cashen's caliber, who only want to contribute and who neither need nor want to sell or take orders here, feel welcomed, and their information valued, by the establishment itself. He is not the only one at the pinnacle of the profession who has stopped or who only rarely posts here anymore. Nor is he the only one who has left with a feeling (whether valid or not, the end result is the same) of being chased off or of, "enough is enough".

This is good for no one, and certainly not for any new or aspiring knifemakers. You know, the ones who are most likely to benefit from the forum, the ones who are most in need of the advertising that BF provides, and the ones most likely to benefit from the knifemaker membership in general.

My $.02. I'm out.
 
How many times does it need to be repeated in this thread exactly what the definitions are and what is expected of the various levels of membership?
I do understand what some are trying to say, but blaming moderators or even Spark for those transgressions clearly lying in the hands of those who've ignored the rules or have been abrasive, really accomplishes nothing. By his own admission, Mr. Cashen was clearly run off by the acrimony caused by several of his peers.
 
You were linked to the definitions.
I posted the only mention of advertising written by Spark in the links you posted:

BladeForums.com is supported by members who have paid subscriptions. These different subscription levels offer various perks and benefits. As such, only certain membership levels may advertise items and services for sale on this site. Below are some general guidelines as to what priviledges each membership has within this area. Put it another way, without the appropriate level of paid subscription, you may not advertise or sell on this site. Period. No excuses.

Has Spark mentioned or defined advertising somewhere else?

Chuck
 
Warren, I've spoken with Kevin regarding this as well. The photo was the final straw - his words:


This is basically what Kevin told me. He didn't stress the final straw when he mentioned it to me, but actually minimized its importance in the big picture. It was the lack of response to the trolling that he felt was making his contribution wasted, and in fact derailing otherwise informative posts.
 
The photo was the final straw - his words:

It looks like kevin made one fatal mistake, he took this place to serious and put to much of himself into it unguarded, he also should have never validated the jack handle closet trolls

It takes a thick skin to survive on the interwebs in its current form ;0)
 
It looks like kevin made one fatal mistake, he took this place to serious . . .
All full time knifemakers take knifemaking serious. This is one of the major differentiations between full time and part time.

Chuck
 
@Alpha Knife Supply

Your right full time makers do take their profession very serious, But by kevin taking shop talk too serious knowing full well that any wagon wheel with a computer can make a mess of things is where he went wrong, he validated the closet trolls and it caused him mental anguish

I would hope that he realises this and comes back to participate ;0)
 
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