Bill DeShivs
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2000
- Messages
- 12,609
So, since the move, will any of these problems/suggestions be addressed?
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What was the purpose of this post? Is it an insult?You can't buy your real friends.....
What a mess!
But I dont think anybody can say that if I posted I would never be called an elitist for trying to help people find a better quenchant, a snob for steering a newbie toward a better steel or a jealous hater for suggesting that the laws of physics dont change because of what somebodys hero wrote in a magazine.
Sorry man, when lies are printed in public, retractions and apologies should be too.
Aw c'mon, it's not as bad as it seems. Let's just call it growing pains. We're all big boys here; I remain confident that this stuff can be worked out.
I'm very glad that Stacy moved this thread in its entirety to Tech Support. Now it's being seen by people who might never wander into ST, and more importantly it's getting attention and input from the people (supermods and Spark) who can actually address these issues. That may actually be productive. We all want to improve the situation, yes?
"Snipping" non-rule-violating posts and "splitting" threads has been happening far too much lately in more than one subforum, and that really is a cheesy, cowardly move :thumbdn: It's pretty clear when that happens that it's only because someone started taking things personally and removed everything that disagreed with them. That serves only to foster confusion and get people resenting one another.
There's WAY too much personal conflict in this thread, and that's not helpful to anyone...
Brian and Karda, I'm talking to both of you as an uninterested, uninvolved third-party observer. I have no dog in y'all's fight, nor do I want to. You two need to work that out between yourselves, start your own specific thread here in Tech Support to air your grievances and get it resolved, or just plain drop it. You're not helping anything by arguing back-and-forth in this discussion. It's nothing but a distraction.
I think I was the first one to invoke your name here, Kevin, so I'll take the liberty of responding to your concerns. As you know - and anyone who read my questions and your answers back then will know, too - I respect you and I learned a great deal from you. I really wish you were active here again.
I remember those days of contentiousness and conflicts... and not fondly. The level of personal attacks and outright bullshit bordered on being unconscionable. That it went on so long was embarassing at the very least.
As Karda mentioned, the site-wide and even subforum-specific mods can't possibly police everything that happens. If awful behavior isn't reported, it's not going to be noticed much less dealt with. That ain't "snitching", it's more like a neighborhood watch.
Kevin, I seldom say "never", but I sincerely think you and others would be pleasantly surprised to see that there is a whole lot less of that kind of nonsense in ST now than there was a few years ago. Along with the great makers that unfortunately walked away around that time, even more nitwits and ne'er-do-wells have also just stopped pushing that kinda noise.
I honestly feel that ST overall is much more civil, reasonable, and generally encouraging to newbies now than it was only 3-4 years ago, simply for the lack of drama. If it wasn't, I wouldn't post there either. It seems to me that this is largely due to Stacy coming into his own as a mod, and also due to regulars just plain saying, "wait, that's not right". Perhaps there's some pure luck involved, too... that's OK with me![]()
But there's a definite pattern, and I sincerely think it's moving in the right direction.
Which brings me to perhaps my main point. The past has passed. There's nothin' we can do about that now. I would enjoy nothing more than to see guys like Kevin and Bruce and Don and Brian and Karl post more again. I think Stacy's doing a pretty damn good job, and that's awesome.
But if us newer guys down in the trenches want more leaders and guidance, we're going to have to become those leaders. Just by example.
Not just whine about "how great it used to be" or hold silly grudges from months or years ago, but truly learn from the giants whose shoulders we stand upon and pay that knowledge forward. I really think we've got a solid foundation to build upon in ST.