If you are a Knifemaker....then be a Knifemaker

Morrow said:
Yea...good idea. I can pull the posts out and put them in a thread in Tech Support but I'm hoping that won't be necessary.
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If you close the thread or pull any posts it will be considered thread manipulation.
 
Morrow said:
The only forum function not available to you is PMs. If someone has their email address listed in the their profile, all you need to do is click their name to send them an email. The Tech Support forum is open to anyone. Spark can be reached at Spark@Bladeforums.com

You're not going to get a lot of traction on discussion of any mod in the Shop Talk forum....it simply isn't right place for it and will result in this thread getting closed. If you have a specific problem to address, I've given you several ways to pursue it.
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I'll be damned, I CAN email that way.
I never knew that.

Now if only they didn't drill "snitches get stitches" into my head when I was growing up, I could be a sneak, and tattle.

I have always preferred to handle things directly, straight forward, and man to man.
No need to go behind someones back.
That's cowardly.

The lies are right here, in this subforum, it seemed like the appropriate place for a response.
You know, the same place people see the lie, they also see the resolution...

Clearly that won't happen, and management is OK with that.
 
By snip the post I meant remove the text and leave an explanation behind why the content was inappropriate, Thats common practice all over the intronets when the offending person is not the OP ;0)
 
We've had some good idioms in this thread...."don't throw out the baby with the bathwater"...."don't mow down the whole forest because of one oddly shaped tree." Here are some others that apply:

A House Divided Against Itself Cannot Stand
All In The Same Boat
An Axe To Grind
Cry Over Spilt Milk
Elvis has left the building
Know the Ropes
Let Bygones Be Bygones
 
I composed a post last night, but I have no idea what happened to it.

Wish I had a really great solution to smooth some of this stuff out.

There's no doubt that the loss of two makers at the level of Kevin Cashen and Brian Fellhoelter is a HUGE LOSS. I think they are great examples since they're both on very different ends of the spectrum as far as what they specialize in... but both extremely talented, smart, very knowledgeable knife makers.


I still feel like the idea of some of those guys needing to buy a membership is akin to telling an author he needs to pay people to read his books (isn't it supposed to be the other way around?). Guys that draw people here, AND KEEP THEM HERE, are a benefit to the dollars and sense of this place... IMHO. :)



Of course one issue with this is simply that there are about a thousand other forums for knife related stuff these days. When I registered here in 1999, it was the only knife forum I knew of.
 
Fellhoelter said:
I'll be damned, I CAN email that way.
I never knew that.

Now if only they didn't drill "snitches get stitches" into my head when I was growing up, I could be a sneak, and tattle.

I have always preferred to handle things directly, straight forward, and man to man.
No need to go behind someones back.
That's cowardly.

The lies are right here, in this subforum, it seemed like the appropriate place for a response.
You know, the same place people see the lie, they also see the resolution...

Clearly that won't happen, and management is OK with that.
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The Tech Support forum is open for anyone to read...nothing cowardly there. Beyond that I don't have any other suggestions for you other than what I've already given. Do whatever you're comfortable with.
 
NickWheeler said:
I composed a post last night, but I have no idea what happened to it.

Wish I had a really great solution to smooth some of this stuff out.

There's no doubt that the loss of two makers at the level of Kevin Cashen and Brian Fellhoelter is a HUGE LOSS. I think they are great examples since they're both on very different ends of the spectrum as far as what they specialize in... but both extremely talented, smart, very knowledgeable knife makers.


I still feel like the idea of some of those guys needing to buy a membership is akin to telling an author he needs to pay people to read his books (isn't it supposed to be the other way around?). Guys that draw people here, AND KEEP THEM HERE, are a benefit to the dollars and sense of this place... IMHO. :)



Of course one issue with this is simply that there are about a thousand other forums for knife related stuff these days. When I registered here in 1999, it was the only knife forum I knew of.
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Per the first post in this thread:

bladsmth said:
I known that this will get a few folks upset, but those who follow the rules probably won't be the ones. It also has nothing to do with someone's content value or quantity of information contributed to the forums. In my personal opinion, those folks should be the first ones to follow the rules, because they are the ones newer smiths look up to as examples.
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And to think this "mess" is over something that happened 8 months ago. A simple request to comply with the known and posted forum rules that everyone is responsible for knowing and complying with as they agreed to when they signed up here. Something that was already discussed then and addressed by the owner himself.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
We have cleaned up our act considerably in the last couple years. Bad behavior and trolling is not tolerated by the general community and our egos are in check. Shoptalk is not the rude and rowdy place it was a few years ago. Our biggest problem, as I see it, is there isn't much meat left in the soup and we've lost "critical mass". Shoptalk is becoming irrelevant, for a number of reasons, and that really bothers me.
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It would be great fun to go back to the way it was Nathan, but a lot of water has went under that bridge. If this forum is better than it was in the darker days I am happy for folks like yourself who have seen it all and stuck it out. But I don’t think anybody can say that if I posted I would never be called an elitist for trying to help people find a better quenchant, a snob for steering a newbie toward a better steel or a jealous hater for suggesting that the laws of physics don’t change because of what somebody’s hero wrote in a magazine.

There is no ego on my part in telling you that for over 16 years I been paid to teach knifemaking at respected and accredited facilities all across the country, those are just the facts, not boasting. In fact I just got back from teaching the first course at the new ABS SOFA School in Ohio. People from other countries and all parts of this one pay good money to have me help them learn this craft. Who in their right mind would come home exhausted from that and want to be berated by faceless usernames on a screen for offering the same to them for free because you just want to help?

Perhaps all forums are becoming irrelevant as novelty fades enough not to offset the terrible behavior they can inspire in people, and professionals find more pleasant uses of their time. Things may be a bit better here now, but I still get notice of what seems to be this same conversation being repeated every so many months; that in itself should tell you there is still something not working here that is being ignored rather than fixed.

The answer is as simple as it is unknowable- if you want people to come here it must be a place where they really want to be, advertising value is not enough, they have to actually enjoy being here.

Nathan, your soup example is eerily close to an analogy I used a couple years ago to tell why I did not envy Stacy the job ahead of him. I said that this forum had gone so long without anything being nipped in the bud that to fix it the pruning would leave nothing but bare branches. I wished it hadn’t been so prophetic. You wanted my input as to why I left and so I responded out of respect to you and all the other good folks who did make me feel so welcome and appreciated here in the past.
 
Until this very thread, I myself was quite unaware that some folks had trolled you so hard.
Moderators cannot possibly conceivably read every thread or post made on this forum or site. It takes a community effort to change things for the better. We are all responsible for making this forum what it is...or isn't. Not just the moderators.
We have only one active moderator for this forum and out of the supermods only a few are on daily anymore. Aside from noticing a transgression while a supermod is reading, for the most part they depend on reports of rule breaking and poor behavior in order to act upon them.
For whatever reason we get very few reports in the backend concerning this forum from the membership.
Had these things you're referring to been reported with proper explanation more often, perhaps things might have been different on that end.
I am sorry, that you take little pleasure from this forum, Mr. Cashen and it would be my hope that you would persevere, but if you choose not to, it is understandable.
 
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I know that adding another category of member adds complexity, but perhaps Mastersmiths could be granted some sort of honorary membership which allows them to post messages regarding past works, WIP, tutorials, suggestions, questions, and other topics? Yet, if they want to post "for sale" advertisements, then they should pony up for a knifemaker membership, as stated by the rules of this site. A quick glance at the American Bladesmith society list of mastersmiths, reveals that there are (at most) 100 people who actively with this status. Shouldn't we welcome them here with open arms? It would appear to be a "win-win" situation for all. The site-owner gets benefit, as well as the membership.

Mike L.
 
My bet is that Karda pays no dues. If the forum wanted to give out memberships they could, AND NO ONE WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT! Except, of course, the parties involved. This is how it's normally done, but there seems to be purely a profit motive here. If Mr. Felholter or Mr. Cashen or Mr. Supermaker is apt to say something that could be construed as commercial, GIVE them the required membership. It's really not that hard to understand-once the profit motive is removed. Rolex GIVES watches to prominent people. Fender GIVES guitars to stars. It's normal business. You should want to keep the "stars" participating here by making them feel welcome.
 
Who in their right mind would come home exhausted from that and want to be berated by faceless usernames on a screen for offering the same to them for free because you just want to help?
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This is certainly true, as is the ignored fact that many members comment, or tag Knife maker members with comments only as a way to attach their own thread, or site. Check out how many times, almost everyone, that someone will post in another Knife maker's thread, "great knife, really like, " and then add several links to his/her own business or exchange thread. I have reported this many times. I find it difficult to see why anyone respects certain Makers that post on nearly EVERY thread meaningless comments, but surely attach their link. This seems to me very rude and stepping all over someone else thread. But the Mods allow it and say that it is O.K. .. I am not a Knife Maker and if I comment, I buy the product. Last time I waded through nearly 10 comments to purchase from a Maker. Along the way I was offered other choices had I simply wanted to hit their link. Most of this comes from so called respected Knife makers doing it to other makers. If I step on a sales thread, which is also way out of hand, far to many unrelated questions in sales exchange, I get an infraction. I understand certain areas allow open conversations, but links should not be allowed. The mods do a heck of a job, but can not check every post, if it is to stop, the members must report it. Also it seems fewer and fewer areas are off limits to colorful language and remarks that lead several above members to leave. General and other areas should remain open to posting knowledge without being attacked and ridiculed. Perhaps Mr. Cashen does have a valid point and should be respected. Just my thoughts.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
I sure got my pee pee whacked for doing it in the Maintenance thread!
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Your "pee pee" was warned for referring a sale to a non member dealer to another user. Moderators have been issuing this warning/infraction for many years. It's nothing new. It is actually included under the deal spotting rules.

Bill DeShivs said:
My bet is that Karda pays no dues. If the forum wanted to give out memberships they could, AND NO ONE WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT! Except, of course, the parties involved. This is how it's normally done, but there seems to be purely a profit motive here. If Mr. Felholter or Mr. Cashen or Mr. Supermaker is apt to say something that could be construed as commercial, GIVE them the required membership. It's really not that hard to understand-once the profit motive is removed. Rolex GIVES watches to prominent people. Fender GIVES guitars to stars. It's normal business. You should want to keep the "stars" participating here by making them feel welcome.
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Back to attacking karda......
Bill...just how many moderators here do you think have paid memberships?
FYI, I pay my dues almost everyday by helping maintain the site as well as donating my time to a manufacturer. I have supported the site monetarily, as you possibly have. But really honestly, whether I do or not is not a concern of yours.

Yes it's purely profit motivated. :rolleyes: That's why for many years the owner bore the costs of this place out of his own pocket and now only asks that if you advertise yourself, that you pay to do so or remove the advertising.

Honestly, if all we're going to accomplish is to repeat the first 10 pages of this thread and attack moderators, this thread has no more purpose and might as well be closed.
 
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Kevin R. Cashen said:
It would be great fun to go back to the way it was Nathan, but a lot of water has went under that bridge. If this forum is better than it was in the darker days I am happy for folks like yourself who have seen it all and stuck it out. But I don’t think anybody can say that if I posted I would never be called an elitist for trying to help people find a better quenchant, a snob for steering a newbie toward a better steel or a jealous hater for suggesting that the laws of physics don’t change because of what somebody’s hero wrote in a magazine.

There is no ego on my part in telling you that for over 16 years I been paid to teach knifemaking at respected and accredited facilities all across the country, those are just the facts, not boasting. In fact I just got back from teaching the first course at the new ABS SOFA School in Ohio. People from other countries and all parts of this one pay good money to have me help them learn this craft. Who in their right mind would come home exhausted from that and want to be berated by faceless usernames on a screen for offering the same to them for free because you just want to help?

Perhaps all forums are becoming irrelevant as novelty fades enough not to offset the terrible behavior they can inspire in people, and professionals find more pleasant uses of their time. Things may be a bit better here now, but I still get notice of what seems to be this same conversation being repeated every so many months; that in itself should tell you there is still something not working here that is being ignored rather than fixed.

The answer is as simple as it is unknowable- if you want people to come here it must be a place where they really want to be, advertising value is not enough, they have to actually enjoy being here.

Nathan, your soup example is eerily close to an analogy I used a couple years ago to tell why I did not envy Stacy the job ahead of him. I said that this forum had gone so long without anything being nipped in the bud that to fix it the pruning would leave nothing but bare branches. I wished it hadn’t been so prophetic. You wanted my input as to why I left and so I responded out of respect to you and all the other good folks who did make me feel so welcome and appreciated here in the past.
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My experience is that its a sad state of affairs. I'm only 2 years into this journey, and I'm on of the more experienced people who post regularly. That's sad. I don't mean to compare myself to the hansens, wheelers, and others who post here, but the experienced makers are not a regular presence here.
 
OK- I was "warned." I was trying to add just a little levity to this dreadful thread!
Whether you, or any mod gets free membership is not my concern- you are correct. Nor would it be my concern if BF gave esteemed personnel paid memberships, rather than nit-picking every time someone accidentally posts something that could remotely be considered commercial. You made my point exactly. These people should be ENCOURAGED to post here. If the mods think their posting would violate the rules, then very quietly give them the membership that would prevent the rule breaking. I "pay my dues" here by posting information that I think might be helpful. Occasionally I ask a favor of the members and they have jumped at the chance to help me. Good folks here. As I said, I'm not here for commercial purposes so I don't need a paid membership- but I don't need to feel that the forum management really doesn't want me here because I don't pay up. General business rules say that the more important people you sponsor, the more paid members you will get. But it's not my forum nor do I have any say in running it. I'm just making suggestions.
As far as attacking Karda- I certainly have noticed little humility or flexibility on your part. We just have to follow the rules. Karda is always right.
 
Karda said:
Back to attacking karda......
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Bill DeShivs said:
As far as attacking Karda- I certainly have noticed little humility or flexibility on your part. We just have to follow the rules. Karda is always right.
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Folks, please be under no illusion that I am attacking Karda.

I am defending my name.

The man lied about me, right here, in this forum, and refuses to apologize, or even acknowledge it.
 
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