If you believe knives arent just for cutting... this threads for you(TIP STRENGTH)

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dahkholiday said:
Ey killgar nice blade btw, whos the maker of that bad boy?
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It's a Wilson Tactical model 25. Semi-custom, no longer being made.

By the way, the "knife abuse" and "I don't care" comments were not directed at you or a response to anything you posted. It was a general response to people who think a knife is ONLY for cutting things and believe that using a knife in the manner I described constitutes "abuse". I assume that you agree with me on the point I was making, which was/is- I use my knives however I choose, and I don't care if other people consider it to be abusive.

Like I said, don't take things personally :).

Also, I see your point about the affect that smart-ass remarks can have on a thread and how there can be a snowball-effect, but that's what moderators are for. If you think a post is inappropriate you can report that post to the moderators by clicking on the little exclamation point in the lower left hand corner of their post. The moderators here are pretty good at dealing with genuine trolling. You may not see them do their thing, but that's because they often work behind the scenes and deal with troll directly.
 
Shotgun said:
For piercing I've found the best thing to be the awl on a sak like the one found on the farmer/electrician models. And this opinion comes from actually using my knives. Yep, people on here actually use their knives. That's okay, you're not the first person to say that and you surely wont be the last.;)
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Ah thats great man, is this the part where all the sensitive people that use their knives feel the need to make it public? I'm talking bout knives funny guy
 
Piercing and prying tasks are very different in terms of ideal geometry, and the medium being pierced will affect it as well. So, too, does resistance to torsion play into things. It is possible to have knives with reinforced points while retaining good cutting geometry in the rest of the blade, and there are many historical examples of these.
 
killgar said:
It's a Wilson Tactical model 25. Semi-custom, no longer being made.

By the way, the "knife abuse" and "I don't care" comments were not directed at you or a response to anything you posted. It was a general response to people who think a knife is ONLY for cutting things and believe that using a knife in the manner I described constitutes "abuse". I would think you would agree with me on the point I was making, which was/is- I use my knives however I choose, and I don't care if other people consider it to be abusive".

Like I said, don't take things personally :).

Also, I see your point about the affect that smart-ass remarks can have on a thread and how there can be a snowball-effect, but that's what moderators are for. If you think a post is inappropriate you can report that post to the moderators by clicking on the little exclamation point in the lower left hand corner of their post.
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Nice man

Ohkay i got you, yea sometimes when youre getting poked at every corner the punch you throw hits the wrong person, my apologies my man

ALso some helpful advice that i appreciate... your alright kilgar, youre alright, my only retort is you can google threads that have been killed with no moderator in sight, but maybe the mods are better now but thanks again brodie
 
Sikael said:
Hope is a lovely thing. I can't believe that post had the benefit of hindsight and editing, yet managed to retain it's wonderfully incoherent essence. 'Army of Alligators'. 'Shootout with a shark'. Praise Jebus someone's living in the real world; BF has been waiting for a bona fide operator-wetwork-blackops-genius, someone who can rid the forum of all the fanboys, send them fleeing in terror, clutching their still-boxed knives.
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I was almost about to have to put something here. Thank you for saving me the time and giving me a good laugh :D

In regard to the question of tip strength, the toughest and most durable tip I have ever had is on my Blackheart knives. They are done with a Honzokuri grind that is a sinlge contiuous convex bevel without a secondary bevel for the cutting edge, and they leave plenty of steel behind the edge to support a monstrously strong tip without being so obtuse that they can't cut. In fact, they work excellently for just about every cutting task that I have really been able to think of for them, besides extremely fine cutting tasks (which they aren't designed to handle anyway).

Most of them are done in A2 as well, which is not what I would consider a "super steel" honestly, so it fits the OP's request quite well. They are custom though so they're a little expensive, and he does use 3V, which might be a bit too "super" of a steel for what the OP's asking for...
 
Charr said:
I was almost about to have to put something here. Thank you for saving me the time and giving me a good laugh :D

In regard to the question of tip strength, the toughest and most durable tip I have ever had is on my Blackheart knives. They are done with a Honzokuri grind that is a sinlge contiuous convex bevel without a secondary bevel for the cutting edge, and they leave plenty of steel behind the edge to support a monstrously strong tip without being so obtuse that they can't cut. In fact, they work excellently for just about every cutting task that I have really been able to think of for them, besides extremely fine cutting tasks (which they aren't designed to handle anyway).

Most of them are done in A2 as well, which is not what I would consider a "super steel" honestly, so it fits the OP's request quite well. They are custom though so they're a little expensive, and he does use 3V, which might be a bit too "super" of a steel for what the OP's asking for...
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I prefer the name sharkkiller
 
Training knives have amazing tip strength. Might be the knife for you.
 
I've dug a hole with one, no edge damage, ever. When I sharpen them at 90° I get two edges as well. Four if you count the spine. Brute force baby
 
A word of friendly advice to the OP: let the jokes bounce off your skin and either laugh with them or like other's have said: IGNORE.

I haven't been on this particular forum for a long time but know the larger the forum, the thicker the skin you need. Take it in stride.

Also, certain topics and/or comments are genuinely going to cause controversy such as inferring that people "don't use their knives" or posting about using knives in ways their original designers were not intending them for (see: batonning with a folder, throwing non-throwing knives, poking hot lava, etc.).

I like this forum and all it's info but also like the candor here too. Hope your topic's question gets answered to your satisfaction and you have a fun time here in other threads...

FWIW, I'd generally trust tips that are pretty obtuse with a pretty thick point if I were to pry, stab or otherwise put a lot of lateral force on a blade end which is the "weakest" point of almost any knife.
 
orezona said:
A word of friendly advice to the OP: let the jokes bounce off your skin and either laugh with them or like other's have said: IGNORE.

I haven't been on this particular forum for a long time but know the larger the forum, the thicker the skin you need. Take it in stride.

Also, certain topics and/or comments are genuinely going to cause controversy such as inferring that people "don't use their knives" or posting about using knives in ways their original designers were not intending them for (see: batonning with a folder, throwing non-throwing knives, poking hot lava, etc.).

I like this forum and all it's info but also like the candor here too. Hope your topic's question gets answered to your satisfaction and you have a fun time here in other threads...

FWIW, I'd generally trust tips that are pretty obtuse with a pretty thick point if I were to pry, stab or otherwise put a lot of lateral force on a blade end which is the "weakest" point of almost any knife.
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Its really not a question, its more of a lets hear about some blade steels/ that get looked over, knives that get used hard, not neccesarily tip strength,but tough knives aswell storys from steels that are deemed obsolete, knives people had good experiences with, trust me man im good, I've heard funnier jokes on popsicle sticks, thanks for your advice with the trolls though, People are entiled to theyre opinion as well as you
 
If you are about to stab something and you're afraid your knife's tip is going to break, it's probably not the smartest thing to be stabbing. Anything worth stabbing should be easily handled by almost any knife out there, as blades tend to have a LOT of strength directly behind their tip, seeing as the whole blade is behind the tip when stabbing. If you're going to be putting any lateral torque on the knife, it's probably not the best tool for the job and you should probably get a prybar or a screwdriver or something you don't want to break, as twisting and prying are not jobs for a sharpened implement like a knife. I've stabbed through things with the disposable boxcutter razor blades, and I've stabbed things with a full-on camp chopper knife, any blade should be able to handle a straight stab, the prying is where the tip breaks, and also where the use of the knife is no longer being fulfilled.
 
KingMC said:
If you are about to stab something and you're afraid your knife's tip is going to break, it's probably not the smartest thing to be stabbing. Anything worth stabbing should be easily handled by almost any knife out there, as blades tend to have a LOT of strength directly behind their tip, seeing as the whole blade is behind the tip when stabbing. If you're going to be putting any lateral torque on the knife, it's probably not the best tool for the job and you should probably get a prybar or a screwdriver or something you don't want to break, as twisting and prying are not jobs for a sharpened implement like a knife. I've stabbed through things with the disposable boxcutter razor blades, and I've stabbed things with a full-on camp chopper knife, any blade should be able to handle a straight stab, the prying is where the tip breaks, and also where the use of the knife is no longer being fulfilled.
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All opinions welcomed bro, but that my friend is an opinion, we cant say a knife isnt fulfilling its purpose the same way we cant say a racecar or an rv isnt fufilling its purpose as a transportation device, im mean we can but it pointless there are people that modified vehicles whether to race, live in, or pull crop, A knife is a tool, people put theyre own definition on what a knife should be, and when someone else has theyre opinion people get bent out of shape and get synical, advances in technology lead to more capabilities, And i'll tell you write now, im sure many can agree, many knifes can pry stab and slice, good example my stider db, but fill free to state your opinion, this is a discussion.
 
I firmly believe that knives are not "just for cutting". A knife's ability to puncture is extremely important to me, to the point that I will hardly even consider a knife with an obtuse tip. The majority of my knife work is done on my kayak while fishing or at the cleaning table processing fish. A knife without the ability to puncture through scales and skin is near useless for my purposes. I even have a couple of folding knives that I love because of certain characteristics which come with a "stronger" tip. I immediately regrind these upon purchase to give them a finer more acute tip. My favorite knife for "puncturing" is a custom Phil Wilson fillet knife with an extremely acute tip. I have made thousands of punctures with this knife...through skin and scale and often even hitting small soft bones. It has never suffered the slightest damage.

It seems from reading the original post that you want a knife that is good at puncturing but are then talking about a tip that is strong. The two characteristics are quite different and to some degree are mutually exclusive. I think the question which was asked very early in the thread "what do you need to puncture" (which you took for sarcasm) was an extremely important and relevant inquiry.

FWIW, type of steel has almost zero bearing on this discussion. The piercing ability and strength (or lack thereof) of a knife tip is defined almost exclusively by geometry.

Some shots of some of my "stabbier" knives.
 
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I'm sure I have a number of stout tiped knives, but the one that pops into my head first is my Boker Tunnel Rat, or possibly the Boker Bob. But pretty chunky all around. If I recall, my newer ZT180 has a fairly heavy but usable geometry also. Someone on here recently did a fairly hard core test/review of the zt180 with a bunch of punctures on different objects. So I'm fairly convinced that it'll handle that next can of paint that I want to go all stabby on. ;)
 
I take comfort in a stronger tip. I've never broken a tip but I have an old knife of my father's with a broken tip. I prefer a knife with a tip that looks like I can count on it. I once had a Leek but never could bring myself to carry it because the tip is so thin. I realize the knife is not intended for some of this kind of use but I think a knife should stand up to a reasonable amount of piercing. But sometimes you are in an emergency situation where you need to do something and you don't have any tools with you other than your knife, so hopefully it can save you.

I'm carrying a PM2 right now and it has an in between tip but I've seen videos where the tip stood up to a lot of stabbing and levering in wood, something I likely would never do.

I liked to watch the old hockey-mask videos on youtube where the guy would dig a hole all the way through a 2x4 board by stabbing the knife in there and levering it out to pop out a chunk of wood. That proved good tip strength for at least some of the knives.
 
Surfingringo said:
I firmly believe that knives are not "just for cutting". A knife's ability to puncture is extremely important to me, to the point that I will hardly even consider a knife with an obtuse tip. The majority of my knife work is done on my kayak while fishing or at the cleaning table processing fish. A knife without the ability to puncture through scales and skin is near useless for my purposes. I even have a couple of folding knives that I love because of certain characteristics which come with a "stronger" tip. I immediately regrind these upon purchase to give them a finer more acute tip. My favorite knife for "puncturing" is a custom Phil Wilson fillet knife with an extremely acute tip. I have made thousands of punctures with this knife...through skin and scale and often even hitting small soft bones. It has never suffered the slightest damage.

It seems from reading the original post that you want a knife that is good at puncturing but are then talking about a tip that is strong. The two characteristics are quite different and to some degree are mutually exclusive. I think the question which was asked very early in the thread "what do you need to puncture" (which you took for sarcasm) was an extremely important and relevant inquiry.

FWIW, type of steel has almost zero bearing on this discussion. The piercing ability and strength (or lack thereof) of a knife tip is defined almost exclusively by geometry.

Some shots of some of my "stabbier" knives.
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Well its like I mentioned earlier when that question was asked and i think to each his own, you can put a specific use on a knife, or you can use the knife for everything, regardless You need a strongtip. I agree with some of the things you say to a certain extent, like it being about the geometry blade, that i agree and that, to a degree, because I own a non tanto, non-chisel grind that can hold its own in the tip area, an anza knife made from a file, and same time I disagree with type of steel having no bearing in this discussion, Steel is not only essential, its key and even more Important than the two is its heat treating, You can have two knives with the same steel perform differently, just on account of its heat treating, too hard its shatters too soft and you can figure out whats gonna happen, Some of the Lamest steels can hang with the big dogs if it has the correct heat treating, but its just the odds are against someone using a cheaper steel and going out their way having good heat treating, but theyre out there, people that testify of there once thought obsolete knives, but in my opinion cold steels a good example they still use aus8 or a variant and it holds up very exceptional nobody likes to hear that but Ey I have to be real.
 
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