I'm Glad I Already Have Mags

Ken44 · Dec 30, 2012

I carry myself, but at school full of kids that job should be left up to a well trained Police Officer IMO. Just my opinion though.

Cavalry_Scout · Dec 30, 2012

Ken44 said:
I carry myself, but at school full of kids that job should be left up to a well trained Police Officer IMO. Just my opinion though.

Like Agent Paige?

u812 · Dec 30, 2012

Ken44 said:
I carry myself, but at school full of kids that job should be left up to a well trained Police Officer IMO. Just my opinion though.

Very true,I know many people with carry permits that I would not want to defend me.

Ken44 · Dec 30, 2012

Cavalry_Scout said:
Like Agent Paige?

Won't work in every case. Only a fool would think that.

akthor · Dec 30, 2012

Mags? Hell what about bullets can't even find .22's in my area let alone Ak, AR, 9mm and .45acp :-(

Cavalry_Scout · Dec 30, 2012

Ken44 said:
Won't work in every case. Only a fool would think that.

I just like to point at him when people mention well-trained LEOs. Truth is, most LEOs are not gun people and only fire their service weapons once or twice a year for quals.

Do you want to hear the idiocy of Texas' laws about carry on campus? I can carry my concealed handgun ANYWHERE I want on campus as long as I don't enter a building. I can walk all over a school campus with a concealed handgun, but cannot go to class with it. Brilliant, right? So I am forced to disarm and lock my pistol in my truck to go to class even though my training and experience likely exceeds that of my university's entire police force combined.

u812 · Dec 30, 2012

I got two boxes of .357 today. I have seen a good bit of .40 and 9mm but nothing else. My Wal Mart is bone dry.
The local shop that I got the .357s today had about 8 boxes of .40 Zombie max at 18.00 per. Wish I had the extra cash to have grabbed them.

Cavalry_Scout · Dec 30, 2012

u812 said:
I got two boxes of .357 today. I have seen a good bit of .40 and 9mm but nothing else. My Wal Mart is bone dry.
The local shop that I got the .357s today had about 8 boxes of .40 Zombie max at 18.00 per. Wish I had the extra cash to have grabbed them.

I've had trouble finding reasonably priced .357mag for months now

u812 · Dec 30, 2012

These were Barnes Vor-TX at 21.75 per box.

Ken44 · Dec 30, 2012

Cavalry_Scout said:
I just like to point at him when people mention well-trained LEOs.

I would think he went through much more training than many teachers would be made to go through. Many would do great, but what about the inner city schools where many of the teachers have never even held a gun. If a trained LEO made a mistake like he, I would imagine a short(summer course) trained teacher would be more likely to make a mistake. Not every school has a teacher that is well trained with a firearm.

u812 said:
I got two boxes of .357 today. I have seen a good bit of .40 and 9mm but nothing else. My Wal Mart is bone dry.
The local shop that I got the .357s today had about 8 boxes of .40 Zombie max at 18.00 per. Wish I had the extra cash to have grabbed them.

I sold a .357 Sig not long ago, and gave my friend a good price on some ammo. He came by this morning and wanted the rest for the same price. Told him he should have got it at that price when offered. I bought enough ammo of all types long ago, so I'll never have to worry about running out.

drift draft · Dec 30, 2012

Nothing against our LEOs, but what makes a somewhat trained teacher any less effective than a somewhat trained cop.(there are many small cities without the budget/resources for extensive training) And when it comes to mental issues, I'd bet there as many cops as there are teachers with problems.
Here's one from near my home town:
http://privateofficernews.wordpress...ing-shooting-incident-www-privateofficer-com/

I personally know a cop that shot his pinkey almost off with a 45 while on the toilet

, and another that put a 9mm through his forearm while quickdrawing. Both of these guys are still on the force and allowed to point guns at other people. I know teachers that carry including my sister, and none of them have had any mishaps. Im not saying teachers couldn't have mishaps, but dont think they aren't already happening.
Again no disrespect to our LEOs here, but nothing/nobody's perfect.

Also I wonder if new regulations would include the people who protect our fine lawmakers

:thumbdn:, or will they somehow be exempt?

I can't imagine how this will pan out, but i'm expecting a crazy ride.

Jaxx · Dec 30, 2012

Coal-Cracker said:
I don't believe Jaxx (or anyone for that matter) is implying that teachers should be forced to carry if they don't want to. I for one am in favor of a law-abiding and responsible teacher being there to protect my children. We trust them to teach our kids and keep them safe, yet we don't trust them to carry a firearm?
And if there are teachers with serious mental health problems; what are they doing still teaching? We as a society have to quit being so hyper-sensitive to everyone's feelings.

Yes, correct... I would be very against teachers being forced to carry. This would be an opt-in situation, and I imagine that if these type of programs are allowed, then there would be very strict guidelines for those who qualify to do so. Pretty sure that this would be in locations where an armed security presence is not already in place (unlike larger city schools with metal detectors, security guards/armed school LEO's, etc.)

M67 · Dec 30, 2012

drift draft said:
Nothing against our LEOs, but what makes a somewhat trained teacher any less effective than a somewhat trained cop.(there are many small cities without the budget/resources for extensive training) And when it comes to mental issues, I'd bet there as many cops as there are teachers with problems.
Here's one from near my home town:
http://privateofficernews.wordpress...ing-shooting-incident-www-privateofficer-com/

I personally know a cop that shot his pinkey almost off with a 45 while on the toilet, and another that put a 9mm through his forearm while quickdrawing. Both of these guys are still on the force and allowed to point guns at other people. I now teachers that carry including my sister and none of them have had any mishaps. Im not saying teachers couldn't have mishaps, but dont think there aren't already happening.
Again no disrespect to our LEOs here, but nothing/nobody's perfect.

Yup :thumbup:

Just because a person is paid to carry a firearm, doesn't mean they know how to use it. There are plenty of common folk who recreational shoot who are more trained and better shots.

And forcing teachers to carry is a terrible idea, most of the ones I had in school were scared to death if they were within 30 feet of an unleaded gun. Allowing ones who want to carry to carry though is an idea I'm completely fine with.

Cavalry_Scout · Dec 30, 2012

Ken44 said:
I would think he went through much more training than many teachers would be made to go through. Many would do great, but what about the inner city schools where many of the teachers have never even held a gun. If a trained LEO made a mistake like he, I would imagine a short(summer course) trained teacher would be more likely to make a mistake. Not every school has a teacher that is well trained with a firearm.

.

Again, most LEOs fire their weapons once or twice a year for quals. My training block in firearms at the academy was 16 or 24 hours iirc, that is including the range qual. LEO training regarding firearms is something that one either seeks out on their own or does not receive.

Ken44 · Dec 30, 2012

Cavalry_Scout said:
Again, most LEOs fire their weapons once or twice a year for quals.

If one was protecting a school full of kids it should be made mandatory they train much more often than that. Not that it would be, but think they should be made to.

I know all about LEO's. Have a few friends that have been one for many, many years. They all shoot often, but tell me about some of their co-workers that can barely qaulify. My neighbeor teaches at the training academy, and some of the stories he tells me is funny, yet kinda scarry at the same time.
I'm 52, and when I was younger almost everyone shot well, and often, and most all I went to school with hunted.
Even in a state like mine, its hard to find many young people that are proficient with a gun.

There will be no easy fix for this thats for sure.

drift draft · Dec 30, 2012

Funny thing about firearm training is it stresses firearm safty/respect but lacks people respect.
Alot of shootings are the result of lack of respect of other people. Respect is to be earned, not demanded.
People don't usually shoot people they respect.

Cavalry_Scout · Dec 30, 2012

Ken44 said:
If one was protecting a school full of kids it should be made mandatory they train much more often than that. Not that it would be, but think they should be made to.

I know all about LEO's. Have a few friends that have been one for many, many years. They all shoot often, but tell me about some of their co-workers that can barely qaulify. My neighbeor teaches at the training academy, and some of the stories he tells me is funny, yet kinda scarry at the same time.
I'm 52, and when I was younger almost everyone shot well, and often, and most all I went to school with hunted.
Even in a state like mine, its hard to find many young people that are proficient with a gun.

There will be no easy fix for this thats for sure.

College campuses are currently flooded with veterans that have CHLs (like myself and several classmates), let them carry. There are many teachers and administrators that are proficient with firearms and have their CHLs, let them carry.

Cavalry_Scout · Dec 30, 2012

drift draft said:
Funny thing about firearm training is it stresses firearm safty/respect but lacks people respect.
Alot of shootings are the result of lack of respect of other people. Respect is to be earned, not demanded.
People don't usually shoot people they respect.

Soldiers shoot people they respect regularly. I respected the hell out of those old men n Afghanistan that have been fighting their entire lives with poor provisions, yet I had no trouble lighting them up when the opportunity presented itself.

Firearm training is not intended to teach you to respect your fellow man, that is what your (not you specifically, no offense intended) parents are/were for.

u812 · Dec 30, 2012

drift draft said:
Nothing against our LEOs, but what makes a somewhat trained teacher any less effective than a somewhat trained cop.(there are many small cities without the budget/resources for extensive training) And when it comes to mental issues, I'd bet there as many cops as there are teachers with problems.
Here's one from near my home town:
http://privateofficernews.wordpress...ing-shooting-incident-www-privateofficer-com/

I personally know a cop that shot his pinkey almost off with a 45 while on the toilet, and another that put a 9mm through his forearm while quickdrawing. Both of these guys are still on the force and allowed to point guns at other people. I know teachers that carry including my sister, and none of them have had any mishaps. Im not saying teachers couldn't have mishaps, but dont think they aren't already happening.
Again no disrespect to our LEOs here, but nothing/nobody's perfect.

Also I wonder if new regulations would include the people who protect our fine lawmakers:thumbdn:, or will they somehow be exempt?

I can't imagine how this will pan out, but i'm expecting a crazy ride.

Big difference is that Police are bonded. I am sure school systems do not want to try and bond teachers. Here you would have to be a Deputy,Police Officer or Special Police(Deputy or Police Officer would have to go to the Academy) and bonded through the Sheriff or Police Chief if in a city. I do know that many Sheriffs and Police Chiefs do not want to bond anyone that is not under their direct supervision and I don't blame them as they can be held personally accountable for their actions.

Gravelface · Dec 30, 2012

As a LEO I am frightened beyond reason as the lack of skill some officers have. But at the same time, I am thankful MOST officers will NEVER have to fire their sidearms. Part is a lack of incentive, and while I believe people should just "want" to be as proficient as possible with their work tools , sad reality is, they are not.