Bad inaccurate description of condition by the seller

[Peter Hartwig]

I agree with this but virtually ALL sellers require F&F and won't accept G&S. @Spark should make G&S mandatory. If someone sells LOTS of knives using PP, then that COULD look like a business, but most of us don't sell that many I suspect.

By doing so he would be endorsing PP G&S as the only way to do business. Most if not all other methods don't have guarantees. While this may be just fine with some, others don't want to deal with PP at all(not my opinion). The best that could be achieved is banning ff and likely the sellers would just move to an alternative. There is no doubt though that scammers are being aided by the tax situation. While they stood out more before they are now able to blend in well.
I don't have a good answer . Guess you just have to follow your instinct and hope for the best, or avoided transactions you are not comfortable with.
Hopng the tax problem eases, and maybe so will this problem. Though it may not ever go back.

 

[King of the Cheese]

There is no one size fits all solution. There are risks to everything. If you’re someone that doesn’t want to risk the very rare possibility someone steals from you… don’t buy knives from strangers on the internet.

 

[Danke42]

How do you feel about simply not engaging in transactions you don't feel comfortable with and not being of the mind to force alterations to other peoples freedom of choice.

Ah yes, "safety". That old gem has been dusted off quite a lot these past few years.

That's what I do. But being a part of a larger community I find myself compelled to improve it for all.

The F&F rip off artists can't be solved by an "I'm Alright Jack" mindset.

 

[King of the Cheese]

That's what I do. But being a part of a larger community I find myself compelled to improve it for all.

By mandating what everyone else does in order to make you feel better? Tell us, what transaction methods would Danke42 permit us to use?

The F&F rip off artists can't be solved by an "I'm Alright Jack" mindset.

This wasn’t a “ripoff artist”. The person change his mind after offering a refund.

 

[71rockstar]

F&F seems to have become the norm here, to each his/her own, but I have difficulty doing business with someone who has proven themselves to be dishonest before a deal is made (stealing PayPal's service)

*Edited cuz auto correct was auto wrong...

 

[King of the Cheese]

F&F seems to have become the norm here, to each good own, but I have difficulty doing business with someone who has proven themselves to be dishonest before a deal is made (stealing PayPal's service)

It isn’t “stealing”.. at least not from PayPal. G&s has a claim process because you pay for the insurance.

 

[LEGION 12]

It's stealing and lying , simple as that always has been .

 

[Peter Hartwig]

It isn’t “stealing”.. at least not from PayPal. G&s has a claim process because you pay for the insurance.

PP charges for their service, just as western union and USPS.
For what ever reason PP doesn't charge for gifts to friends and family. They do charge for purchases- the guarantee comes with it. Buying a knife(no matter from who) is a goods and service purchase
Not the worst of crimes, but it is stealing
They aren't a charity
I hate having to defend them, but it is what it is.

 

[King of the Cheese]

PP charges for their service, just as western union and USPS.
For what ever reason PP doesn't charge for gifts to friends and family. They do charge for purchases- the guarantee comes with it. Buying a knife(no matter from who) is a goods and service purchase
Not the worst of crimes, but it is stealing
They aren't a charity

PayPal doesn’t care what you spend your money on. They try to funnel your spending for goods and services to g&s because they bake in overhead fees to allow a claims process. It’s insurance, simple as that. You pay the approximately 3% so they can cover the administrative fees and costs for refunding people. F&F is a transfer of money with no rights to a claim. It isn’t “stealing” to send your own money to someone and choose not to pay the insurance. If we want to get into semantics, everyone I buy a knife from is my “friend” and I’m donating money to them and they are gifting me the knife. How about that?

 

[Peter Hartwig]

I buy a knife from is my “friend” and I’m donating money to them and they are gifting me the knife. How about that?

That is exactly what you are doing with ff, and no reason to complain if you get nothing. They just are not as generous as you.

 

[King of the Cheese]

That is exactly what you are doing with ff, and no reason to complain if you get nothing. They just are not as generous as you.

Yep! This guy gets it. It’s all a roll of the dice.

Although if anyone asks, “hey can I pay g&s I’m more comfortable with that”.. it’s “no problemo!” Never had it happen but it’s possible.

 

[Monofletch]

This is why I trade/sell mostly with friends.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Yep! This guy gets it. It’s all a roll of the dice.

Although if anyone asks, “hey can I pay g&s I’m more comfortable with that”.. it’s “no problemo!” Never had it happen but it’s possible.

The whole gift for gift is a bit contorted and I think most think they are making a purchase. I am not the PP police , and if the parties understand what they are doing, it is fine with me. PP can do their own enforcing.
I have nothing against non guaranteed transactions(until I get burned), but don't use ff, since I am buying and selling knives. My choice and don't think bad of those that use ff(other than full out scammers). I understand why. I just won't do it. Though at times I wish I could compromise my feelings, rather than miss something. Oh well.
I am still able to use G&S(hopefully without taxes) and can offer USPS Money orders for those that don't care for G&S
I took my stance on PP many years ago, and I am not going to change now for convienance

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

That's what I do. But being a part of a larger community I find myself compelled to improve it for all.

Your version of improve and my version of improve are not at all the same.

You do you, and I'll do me. You, content with your "safety" and me, content with mine.

 

[Enzo’s Woodshop]

How do you feel about simply not engaging in transactions you don't feel comfortable with and not being of the mind to force alterations to other peoples freedom of choice.

Ah yes, "safety". That old gem has been dusted off quite a lot these past few years.

Perfectly stated.

Trading freedom for perceived safety is never the right choice. Forcing increased control is not a good move.

Let people decide for themselves. If someone isn’t comfortable using F&F... then they can choose not to use F&F!

I’ve not made many purchases here (I think only one) but I have made a fair amount of purchases on a similar forum, BCUSA, where the trade blanket functions nearly identical to the exchange here.

 

[Planterz]

Bladeforums can't and shouldn't mandate payment rules/requirements/restrictions. Transactions are between only the involved parties. This is a forum, not a intermediary marketplace like Amazon or eBay, and providing restrictions is the next step before giving buyer/seller protection like those actual marketplaces do. Can't sue Tinder or your local free press newspaper because your casual hookup gave you the clap.

 

[J. Doyle]

I don't think bladeforums should ban or mandate any form of payment.

But I think paying with or asking for PayPal F&F is ridiculous and asking for problems.

PayPal is a service, a convenience.... and they shouldn't have to provide it for free. And skirting their rules to avoid fees is stealing that service.

A $350 knife sale equates to only $10.45 in fees. Most sales are less than that.

$10.45 is more than worth it to:

1. Have immediate access to funds and not have to wait 7 days (or more) for a check to arrive (and hope it clears).

2. Make sure I don't permanently lose my ability to utilize such a convenient service.

3. Make sure I don't run afoul of the IRS.

I'm sure anyone that was caught using F&F by PayPal or the IRS would wish they would have just used G&S.

It's laughable to me that some want to take that risk or feel entitled to use the convenience of PayPal without paying for it.

 

[King of the Cheese]

I don't think bladeforums should ban or mandate any form of payment.

But I think paying with or asking for PayPal F&F is ridiculous and asking for problems.

PayPal is a service, a convenience.... and they shouldn't have to provide it for free. And skirting their rules to avoid fees is stealing that service.

A $350 knife sale equates to only $10.45 in fees. Most sales are less than that.

$10.45 is more than worth it to:

1. Have immediate access to funds and not have to wait 7 days (or more) for a check to arrive (and hope it clears).

2. Make sure I don't permanently lose my ability to utilize such a convenient service.

3. Make sure I don't run afoul of the IRS.

I'm sure anyone that was caught using F&F by PayPal or the IRS would wish they would have just used G&S.

It's laughable to me that some want to take that risk or feel entitled to use the convenience of PayPal without paying for it.

It isn’t about the “fee”, it’s about the 1099 tax. If the IRS classified that 1099 as income, it’s not going to be “just 3%” but significantly higher. I’m positive ebay is freaking out right now. This is the year this stuff takes effect and it’s going to be wild. Self employment tax? Income tax? No way to prove paper trail of value due to constant swapping on the forum? And people doing f&f are the “bad guys”? Brace yourselves, g&s fans. You’re about to get a rude awakening come tax season 2024.

 

[Danke42]

By mandating what everyone else does in order to make you feel better? Tell us, what transaction methods would Danke42 permit us to use?

This wasn’t a “ripoff artist”. The person change his mind after offering a refund.

If you just want to talk about me you should go back to Whine & Cheese. You tag and quote me there a few times a day trying to start stuff.

 

[King of the Cheese]

If you just want to talk about me you should go back to Whine & Cheese. You tag and quote me there a few times a day trying to start stuff.

Let’s keep the conversation about this topic where it belongs. Don’t need you deflecting and distracting with what happens elsewhere.