interesting thread

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Robert, Sign up for our test teams. The names are drawn at random, so you stand as good of a chance as anyone else.

Good luck, and Welcome the Busse forum. It's never this heated up over here. We're usually too drunk to fight! ;)

Jerry
 
Originally posted by Jerry Busse
Alpha,

Apparently we make a knife that is so outrageous that you don't need to have ANY survival skills or knowledge of the outdoors whatsoever in order to survive with it.

I think they are referring to the new Fusion Battle Mistress. Rumor has it that you set it down in the middle of the wilderness and it builds your base camp for you, kills wild game, builds a fire, and then turns into a Swedish bikini team girl who then cooks for you!:eek: :eek: (Sheath not included!);)

At the risk of adding any fuel to this fire...Damn I really have to get a F-BM if it does all that. Just don't tll the wife about the Swedish Bikini Team!!!!!
 
Jerry, actually I do own a Busse.
I was thinking about getting another.
Dirk
 
AS I've said before, and did so again just this evening, I sincerely wish that we'd just *quit* talking about Busses at the OSF, or any decent forums, since al it does is bring you freaks into our homes, spouting off about your wunderknives. You like 'em, we don't. Learn to live with it, girls.


Is this because you're afraid you might like it and start enjoying them too?
That would take all the fun out of your little bash sessions wouldn't it?


And before you ask, no, I have never, nor *wiil* I ever, buy a Busse knife.

Oh!, I see this qualifies and reinforces your blanket statement as to why no-one should talk about them.
It also shows your ass and lack of grey matter.....:barf:
 
Phew! Reading through this thread has left me a bit confused, but I'll throw my contribution in anyway.
If I haven't misunderstood something, "survival" is used very broadly here, but actually means different things to different people.
Some see survival as being in the woods because you want to, with what gear you can carry, fishing, hunting, camping, etc. I'll refer to this as "Situation 1"!
Others see survival as an emergency situation where "what you can carry" consists of clothes and a knife! This would then be "Situation 2"
While Situation 1 can be serious enough, you'd seldom have to rely on one knife for everything since there might be plenty of room for a folder, a small fixed blade and maybe a machete, bolo, Khukri, saw, whatever.
In Situation 2, you'd have to rely on one knife to do it all.
While I admit to never having been in Sit. 2, I would most certainly have the best gear money can buy!

How many Busse owners face a Sit. 2? I have no idea! But some like to be ready for anything, some like the stuff that can handle anything, some will be happy with less and some seem to envy those who can and will buy stuff they themselves can't and/or won't buy.

If I had a feeling that I might end up in a Sit. 2, I would want the best blade I could possibly afford!
That might be a Busse, SwampRat, Becker, Fällkniven or something else, but I would want a knife that wouldn't break, chip, fall apart or something else in a situation where I needed it the most!
Several years ago, I was into climbing and mountaineering and had quite a few situations where my (very good) tent and sleeping bag made the difference between very uncomfortable, wet and potentially dangerous nights or a good sleep in a warm sleeping bag inside a dry and stable tent!
I felt silly when I bought both, but after several experiences with lesser gear, I would never even think about compromising again.

I am not even remotely qualified to judge whether Busse Knives are worth the price!
But from my two-three years here at BFC I have learned that they are not the most hyped knives in the business, they are not the most expensive, but both Jerry and his knives has taken more than their fair share of flames, bashings and negative comments!

I'm a user, not a collector and no......I don't own a Busse (yet). I actually "only" have a Becker BK5 (mostly a safe queen now it's been discontinued) and a Fällkniven F 1 which is my EDC.
Guess I am just trying to explain where I come from here, since I think this has been taken much too far!
If a person or group of persons have decided they prefer CS, BK&T, Fällkniven, scandinavian Puuko's, flint knives, HI Khukri's or whatever....fine!
The same it true for the folks who prefer Busse Knives!
I may be dense, but if there is no hidden agenda in the bashing of a person, his business and the people who stick to that, why keep it up?

Bo
 
Well, now you’ve done it, you went and poked fun of my little knife. Feel better? :p

In regards to the knife, it simply works. It has a true “zero edge” grind, meaning that it has a single, flat ground bevel that is sharpened all the way to the cutting edge. This explains the “poor grinds” which are really the sharpening marks that are inevitable in maintaining the knife’s performance. Trust me, the knife is perfectly executed as far as grinds and finish work. Use and sharpening are responsible for its ragged appearance, that and my damn poor picture. Granted, the knife does have a very thin edge but it cuts extremely well (i.e. – effortlessly) and has held up to being pounded through kiln dried oak (against the grain) with no edge problems. Wouldn’t want to chop rocks with it but I really couldn’t ask for much more in a knife this size. As far as being a “survival” knife? It could very well be but I prefer to refer to it as a ready companion, you know, the type of knife you actually have on you should something unexpected happen. Remember the guy who was forced to amputate his own arm? He survived because he had a knife on him when it was needed. Period.

Survival situations are a funny thing, as they never can be predicted as to when or where they will happen. It could be during a hike, a family camping trip, a leisurely day of fishing at the lake or hunting in the woods in early December. In the mountains, valleys, desert or plains. Spring, summer, winter or fall. During hot, warm or cold weather, rain or shine. The fact that you rule out a knife as a survival knife based on size alone just doesn’t cut it. If you can actually say you carry and use your big Busse blades during all the above scenarios, kudos to you. If you don’t, what good are they if they are home?

Before someone knocks me as not having owned or used a Busse, I have. Swamp Rat included. These include BM’s, SH’s, BaIII’s, Satin Jacks, Basic 3, Basic 9 and a Battle Rat. You know what they all have in common? They were used and evaluated and then modified to suit my needs or the needs of the owner. This involved handle mods (some full replacements), regrinds, sheaths and various cosmetic touches. This is in no way saying they are a bad knife, it is just that they may be altered to become better working tools. Shelf sitters need not apply. To say that Busse makes the best blades going can’t be true if they can be improved by the owners to fit their needs. Make sense? The knives performance was improved in every measurable, real world parameter with the exception of ultimate edge durability (i.e. – striking a rock for example). But answer me this, is this last criteria more valuable to you than handle comfort and pure cutting and chopping performance day in and day out? Definitely not worth it to me. I’ll gladly sharpen or steel out an occasional ding for the added performance gained when things are done to my liking.

For those that want some facts to back this up. I have a Battle Rat that experienced some slight edge chipping when clearing an access road of small saplings and brush. This was from chopping the trees as low to the ground as possible at which point contact with the soil and gravel was inevitable. I reground the Rat to a much thinner convex grind which made the process much more efficient. The blade still experienced some damage but not a whole lot more than what was suffered when the knife was stock. How much performance was gained? Cutting brush and saplings was not even comparable. It also nearly doubled when chopping well seasoned Cherry 6” x 6”’s. The stock blade was able to penetrate approx. ¼” when chopping across the full 6” width, whereas the reground blade was able to obtain nearly ½”. This was very hard lumber and no edge damage was suffered at all. Which is the better knife?

My first Busse was the BaIII when they first came out. They were supposed to be have a thin blade and I saw where some Forum members here were stating that this blade would be their hunting knife of choice for the upcoming season. I wouldn’t have anymore used this blade for hunting than I would a kitchen knife. The knife had a seriously thick edge and was very clumsy when compared to what I was used to. I can't even imagine it in the chest cavity. Not necessarily the fault of the knife as much as the fault of the forumites who apparently didn’t have a frickin’ clue as to what a good hunting knife design was. This and many other experiences have shown me the importance of taking what you read on the forum’s with a grain of salt. I refer you to the recent thread looking for some pics of Busse users. WHEW!, never saw so many beaters in my life :rolleyes:

Seriously, I stayed clear of the thread on OSF for the simple reason that I felt there was nothing to be gained by it. The guys on the OSF like the knives they like not because of the materials they are made of, what it cost or who makes it. They like the knives because they have found them to work better in the real world than just about anything else they have tried. The Busse guys like their knives for their own set of reasons. Everyone has their own preferences and should try as many knives as they can before they decide. If you buy and back just one brand because of what you have heard or read, you might never know what you really expect a knife to do. Of course if you don’t ever use them, it doesn’t matter. We just all have to agree to disagree. And try to learn something in the process. I have.
 
So, Jamie,

Let me get this straight. You are recommending a smallish knife ground to a zero edge with slick scales and no guard as a hunting/gutting/dressing knife? Hmmmm... Who has never been inside a "chest cavity" with a knife?:rolleyes:
 
No, I never said that. Although it would be quite possible to do it with this knife without mishap and intend to do so this fall. I know an aweful lot of people who field dress Whitetail with no more than a Schrade stockman (I am not one of them) and have never failed to achieve the desired results. There also have been more animals gutted and butchered by knives without guards than with. It still amazes me that there are so many experts on how the handle feels on that knife who have never handled it. Funny thing is I just remember someone else being chastised for doing the same thing :rolleyes:
 
If you are referring to the fact that I have not handled the OSF Proto, you are correct. I have not held it, much less dressed anything with it. However, I have dressed enough game, from bunnies to Bullwinkle, to know that when I get knee deep in a gutting, skinning, quartering, and butchering job, that I do not want smooth, polished scales that are made slippery with blood and other fluids and I sure don't prefer a knife with no transition from scales to zero edged blade.
 
One last question about your knife Jamie.

The knife has been touted on the OSF as being the ideal all around knife. Being that a forum dedicated to "outdoor survival" is the basis for it's moniker, I would guess that assessment has something to do with outdoor survival activities.

That said, define those activities. In your most recent post here, you stated that you didn't mean for the OSF Proto to be ideally suited to game cleaning activities. You have also admitted that the design does not lend itself well to large fieldcraft activities such as, chopping firewood or felling trees for shelter.

It is also apparently not suitable for doing any number of other hard use tasks that potentially arrise in survival situations (prying, digging, etc.).

So... exactly what is it then, that makes this knife so desireable for outdoor survival applications? Maybe if we have a definition of terms here and can identify what each of us means by "survival" knife, we can come to some sort of an understanding. I have a very clear-cut idea of what a reliable survival knife is to me. What does that mean to you?
 
Quote: Dennis, (aka Volvi) Give me a break! You jumped in on the Busse Bash fest on the Randall forum a year ago with a load of nonsense. When I called you on the phone you apologized for all of your remarks. Give it a rest.

Jerry, I apologogized a year ago not for what I stated, but for having offended you. What I wrote was not nonsense nor bashing, but my opinions. I told you that those were my personal opinions and that if you were indeed threatening to sue Fherman (spelling?) that I would NEVER buy a single Busse from you ever again. In that thread I recall stating that your knives were not very good for chopping compared to a real chopper, and didn't cut (slice) very well because they were too thick. So I questioned what good were they? You called me and stated that for lateral stress (prying) they were the undisputed whatever, and if I were ever in a downed plane and needed to chop myself out of the downed craft they would be what I'd want. I apologized for having offended you and not for what I wrote which were my personal comments and opinions.


As far as this thread, I stand by my opinion regarding 5/32nd in thick 01 tool steel. It can withstand a certain amount of prying. I mentioned S30V because I know it is a tough steel and the amount of prying I was referring to is not your interpretation of prying. The prying that I refer to is not prying a tank apart with one of your 1/4 in thick sharpened pry bars, but prying bark off a tree or perhaps prying a bullet out of wood, etc. Any 1/4 in thick tool steel will pry well, so don't boast so much about your knives as being the ultimate at anything. What I have stated in the past and now is not unfounded horse manure (using your words). I apologize for mentioning prying with S30V in the same sentence as prying with 01. Again, I only mentioned it because the OSF knives are being made out of those steels among others.

Jerry, your boastful claims about making the toughest knives and being the undisputed anything, etc. only sets you up for well deserved criticism.
Personally I still believe the primary uses of a knife meant for outdoor survival are butchering game and woodwork and your knives just aren't the best for such tasks.

Regards,
Dennis
 
I've come in at the tail end of this. Wow. I have encountered a few individuals that scoff at any modern edged tool and have done well dressing game with knapped flint...each to his own. You guys may keep up the dialogue if you have too, it makes for interesting reading, sort of like the partisan rhetoric of Washington; however, the debate will not be resolved regardless of how logical, cogent, or impassioned the exchange. To paraphrase Francois Volaire, I may disagree with everything you say, but, will defend to the death your right to say it.

I know my personal tastes in knives and I enjoy reading the preferences and opinions of others, but, at the risk of sounding misanthropic, could really care less if anyone else shares my preference. Regarding abuse, Jerry could tell you what happens when I tried to break one of his knives, despite the damage, it would still have performed "knife like functions". Yet, I have owned other makers knives, and likely will in the future because my tastes vary, I like edged tools and, unlike others who have posted, have yet to break a large fixed bladed knife while "playing" in the woods. I doubt that my extraneous purchases, or eventual commission of other blades will ruin Busse Combat Knives reputation, sales, or Jerry's opinion of me.

What I really care about is...what fly Spearhead used to catch the King Salmon, the flys recipe, and when he will invite me to come and enjoy the same? My brother and sister in law are moving to Anchorage, and I have heard that the fishing is celestial!
 
Jamie,

Are you trying to drum up a little business for your knife modifying service? :rolleyes:

I don't know how I ever managed to cut 2,771 pieces of 1" hemp rope in a "Live" demonstration at the BLADE Show without your modifications:rolleyes:

If you are a knifemaker and are the one making the OSF knife, then you qualify to do a "live" demonstration with your blade to show its performance capabilities. I would suggest that you wear a cut-proof glove when it comes time for the tip strength demo, because the test requires that you stab the tip, full force, into hard wood, and I don't see any way possible that your hand won't run down on that blade. Make note that if you need to brace your thumb over the butt to stop it, then that is a poor design for a survival knife, plain and simple. The last thing someone in a "REAL" survival situation needs is three of four deeply cut fingers.
 
Does it strike anyone as odd that this entire thread, and the closed one at OSF, sprouted from one guy's question about which knife he should use for chopping?

This is why many of us who are 'new' to these forums absolutely detest ever asking any questions about anything. Not only did the original question never really get answered, but even if it did no one would be able to find it buried amongst all the 'this knife' versus 'that knife' mudslinging.

So how did things get so screwed up? Let's see...

a) A guy asked for recommendations for a knife to use for chopping. He posted a photo of a knife that looks not at all like a Busse. I think Busse knives are beautiful like Glocks are beautiful, but not like a Fabbri is beautiful, and it seemed to me this guy was looking towards a Fabbri. Regardless, he specifically asked for opinions on the SH and BM.

b) True to form, someone recommened a couple of good axes.

c) Someone suggested that he didn't want a Busse for chopping because they don't slice well. A relatively true statement even if it was a pointless consideration given the topic at hand.

4) More people showed up and claimed Busse knives exhibited poor fit and finish. Again, a relatively true statement and slightly less pointless than the slicing one, given that the guy might be interested in aesthetics.

e) The pro-Busse crowd arrives and the thread turns almost completely Busse vs. Old school woodsman knives.

Really guys, at the end of the day Jimbo isn't going to place an order with Busse and no one who hangs out here is going to buy the Mora-esque survival knife promoted over there. While I understand Jerry's desire to defend his knives and his company from what are probably baseless attacks I think that most of us would be better off just answering the guy's questions in a civil fashion. People are always going to have contrasting opinions particularly when they can hide behind the veil of the internet.

I'm not taking sides here. Just trying to point out the futility of the entire discussion. No one will ever take Jerry up on his 'show me the data' request. Even if they did there would be claims of skewed test methods or some such. No one will ever agree on the best survival knife because no one can ever agree what a survival knife is supposed to do.

Go outside and chop down a tree. It will make you feel better.
 
Bachan...

The king posted on the other thread was mojo jojo's... not mine. I haven't done any king fishing yet this year and may not get around to it... I don't know yet.

As to flies, I don't fly fish. (No... I have nothing against fly fishing.;)) So, I don't even know where to begin answering your question.

The fishing is good up here. You were given good information and there are lots of good fishing holes down south around Los Anchorage as well as a little further south on the penninsula.

Let me know if you want some intel or if you find yourself up this way and I'll try to arrange a link-up. :D
 
Jerry,

Damn man...I cut myself with your knives all the time!





Of course, its the user, not the knife.;)

Spearhead, sorry for the confusion...does this mean you wont invite me to go fishing?:D
 
Originally posted by volvi


As far as this thread, I stand by my opinion regarding 5/32nd in thick 01 tool steel. It can withstand a certain amount of prying. I mentioned S30V because I know it is a tough steel. . . . I apologize for mentioning prying with S30V in the same sentence as prying with 01. Again, I only mentioned it because the OSF knives are being made out of those steels among others.. . . Regards,
Dennis

:confused:
Dennis,

So, in regards to S30V, you state that you "know it is a tough steel", then you apologize for mentioning it in the same sentence with 01 when it comes to prying. So, which is it? Is it a tough steel or not? And if "you know" that it is, "how" do you know? Have you tested it to destruction? At what hardness? O-1 isn't a whole lot better unless it has a differential heat treat or temper. Even then, the tip is susceptible to brittleness. If you get 01 into a bainite state, then you have sufficient toughness but lose some of the edge holding that you're going to want on a small slicer like the OSF knife. How is the OSF knife tempered? Is it bainite? Is it differential? Do you know? Would it matter?

Is the maker of the OSF knife going to publish performance test results and blade stress limitations? Don't you think he should if it is being touted as a "Survival" knife?

Thanks in advance for your answers,

Jerry
 
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