International Shipping + Paypal Dispute - Laurin

I ship all over the world and take paypal 100% of the time for payment.

I always:

Insure for the full amount with a tracking number and ship priority international mail ( No foreign P.O. wants the US P.O. on their ass for an insurance claim) -

As a result, I have never had a lost package or had a paypal claim against me.
 
To top it off, I can't close the account (or remove my credit card or bank account) because it has a negative balance. I'm waiting on a student loan to come through on or before the 30th, and hopefully it will cover some of these costs.
 
Are you kidding me? :)

You keep everything relating to any transaction until you hear from the other side that they are happy with the deal.

I keep a text file of all that information to make it easy to retrieve, starting with the URL of the deal's thread, and the receipts stay on my desk till the package arrives.

I do the same and always pay for tracking and insurance in CONUS or not. On the reciept, after I get it, is the BF buyers name and what the contents of the box were.
That sits on my desk until it shows delivered in tracking. Once delivered, I then write the delivery date and time and the reciept sits on my desk until the buyer confirms thru PM that he has it and is happy. Then I toss it.
This IMO should be the standard here for anyone selling. And tracking #'s should be sent to the buyer as soon after you ship as possible.
 
Go to your bank and tell them that somebody has hacked your PP account. Or something. Its just not right that they keep costing you more.

P.S: my overdraft fees are 25 dollars each....
 
I find it weird that you forgot to mention these past incidents before waldizal brought them up.

This whole situation is very painful to witness because there is very little doubt in my mind that Josh shipped the knife and laurin did not receive it.

I agree that Josh was terribly careless, even sloppy, with regards to the way he shipped this knife, especially considering the well-document distrust he has for PayPal.
On the other hand, even if he had kept all the records, that would have meant very little to PayPal, they are simply enforcing their "item not received" buyer protection feature.
As for tracking, I have to disagree with laurin, I do not think it would have reduced the chances of the package "disappearing". Tracking on internartional shipments varies enormously depending on the destination, but in most cases it seldom works all the way to the delivery. I sent a knife to Mark (Buffalohump) in South Africa a couple of months ago using Global Express and I had almost real-time tracking all the way to the USPS International Dispatch facility at Miami International Airport, and then nothing. When checking USPS track & mconfirm, that package is still in transit although it arrived around 8 weeks ago.

My personal opinion is the following: Josh clearly warned laurin that he would do his best in order for the knife to get to him safely, but that he could not take responsibility if it did not. Reading laurin's response, I would say he agreed to the terms.
Clearly, Josh did not do his best to ship this knife, but he cannot bear the responsibility alone. I think laurin jumped the gun by opening a claim with PP so quickly, and even more so escalating it to a dispute. PayPal gives the buyer and the seller a timeline to try and find a consensual settlement, laurin did not use that option.
Furthermore, laurin could have used the GB&U section of this forum to seek advice about how to handle the situation, he did not.
As it stands, laurin has already won his case against Josh simply because there is no way that the latter can prove the knife has been delivered.
I hope that laurin realizes that this outcome is unfair, especially considering his past negative experience. I am sure that had he mentioned the fact that other packages had gone missing recently, Josh would have handled this deal differently.
Unless that knife shows up by some kind of miracle, in which case laurin would have to pay Josh in full immediately, I believe both parties should bear 50% of the loss.

Agreed.

An incident like this makes me want to keep my business in the US and also drop out of PayPal. That's not an indictment of people generally, just the danger of one bad deal doing so much financial damage. It's an unacceptable risk: The Laurin Syndrome.

Agreed.

Josh > Laurin

Agreed.
~ ~ ~ ><> ~ ~ ~

Laurin,

I have learned a few things here today about you that leaves me with some nagging questions/concerns. (1) In an email to Josh early on, you specifically asked him to declare the $210. knife at a $50. value, noting that a lower value would not draw attention to the package in transit and perhaps it wouldn't be pilfered along the way, or some such.. (2) And you did this knowing full well that you have had, by your own admission several "missing packages" before.. And TWO of those you filed fast PayPal Claims for the money lost (3) And then, only disclosed it in a post directly after waldizal mentioned it on a former eBay transaction with you involving the very same problem.. (4) Further, you also asked Josh not to bring this thread in here, which also seems deceptive.. Sorry, but all this doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about you. Now, I am not accusing you of having a friend at your PO and in cahoots with any wrong doing, but some folks might.

Also, although I've never traded/dealt with Josh as of yet, I do know him by his good reputation here at BF via has past deals.
 
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Josh forgot to mention he had not receipt from post office that he shipped. So in this point of view it is his word against my one.
I had couple of great deals with guys here on BF. Everyone has receipt. Everytime knife was delivered
.

Laurin,

Who have you "had a couple of great deals with guys here on BF." ??

I have done several searches and can find no feedback here at GB&U other than this thread. None on sales forums either??.

Help us out here.
 
Josh, you wrote here that you have blocked money on your account, but it seems is not truth. I've got this message from paypal " We have decided in your favor, however, we were unable to recover any funds
from the seller's account. ".
Could you tell us something regarding this?
 
Josh, you wrote here that you have blocked money on your account, but it seems is not truth. I've got this message from paypal " We have decided in your favor, however, we were unable to recover any funds
from the seller's account. ".
Could you tell us something regarding this?

I'll post a screen shot if you want, I have a negative balance of $210 in my paypal account and they have tried twice to take money from both my bank and credit card.

$210 + 2x$36 + 2x$39 + headache + missing knife + no communication from you = no more international deals unless they pay for global priority shipping.
 
Oh hey, check this out. It just says that you are not eligible for anything. Curious.

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Just an FYI: I talked to the post office about tracking and insurance, and they said they had no idea how unless you registered it for $12 on top of a per ounce (or pound) charge. Like I told you.

They also said that Global Express (which is about $25) might be able to track it, but that it was extremely unreliable especially to places other then the UK, Germany, and France.
 
I don't see negative balance on your printscreen. Seems you have to choose one of three possibilities - did you?
 
Seems I have to stop using Paypal, because I really didn't have knife nor money. Same as you - as you said - curious.
 
I don't see negative balance on your printscreen. Seems you have to choose one of three possibilities - did you?

Nope. But previously (before Paypal carefully reviewed the case and decided in the buyers favor. :rolleyes) it showed a large red -$210.00 whenever I logged in.

Seems I have to stop using Paypal, because I really didn't have knife nor money. Same as you - as you said - curious.

I guess Paypal made out the best, with both of us screwed. :thumbdn: Though I still have a restricted paypal account and a lot of bank fees to wade through.
 
According your account printscreen Paypal is waiting for adding funds to your account and then giving to you 3 possibilities to choose. It means your account is blocked now?
 
According your account printscreen Paypal is waiting for adding funds to your account and then giving to you 3 possibilities to choose. It means your account is blocked now?

Yes, it's waiting for me to do something I'm not going to do.
 
Josh, it's possible that PayPal has decided they can't get blood from a stone and will no longer try to take money from an empty account. That would be good, since it means you wouldn't be hit with more overdraft fees. It still leaves you owing them the money to be able to sever ties with your bank and credit card. The alternative would be to close those bank and credit card accounts.
 
Josh, it's possible that PayPal has decided they can't get blood from a stone and will no longer try to take money from an empty account. That would be good, since it means you wouldn't be hit with more overdraft fees. It still leaves you owing them the money to be able to sever ties with your bank and credit card. The alternative would be to close those bank and credit card accounts.

I'm in the process right now. I have to move several things around and then I'm just going to cut it loose.
 
Yes, it's waiting for me to do something I'm not going to do.

I hope chargeback issued by me don't hurt your account by additional fees. Let me know asap, if you'll change your mind and do what Paypal wants from you.
 
Yes, laurin, it did hurt his account. In effect, it canceled it, and it canceled his bank account and credit card account, also. He has to close both of those because he can't close or walk away from his PayPal account until he does, and PayPal has tried twice now to take money from empty accounts, which cost him overdraft fees: $36 for one and $39 for the other.

$210 + 2x$36 + 2x$39 = $360.
 
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