Is Filipino the best?

Originally posted by Marc Animal MacYoung:
h bull...back then the chicks dug the hair.
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Shhhhhhh!

Dewd! I'm trying to improve our image a little here. Ya know, hinting at a deep connection to archetypal warrior spirit and all that. Would you want your reading public to think we were a couple of cads and lacking in sophistication all through our misspent youth?

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Richard


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Power is always less effective than its possessors estimate it to be
 
Marc,

Welcome to the forums.

I would also like to thank you for addressing a point that has been in my mind for a while. That point being about the fact that the some FMA styles could be considered by less knowledgeable people to be an agressor type of fighting.

If I slash the attackers wrist after a block, that could be seen as an agresive move on my part and a defensive move on his part. Most people would say, "then how did he get cut on the inside of his arm? And you are also correct in the fact that if it went a step further, and after the slash to the wrist a thrust or another slash was executed, then there is a very real chance that you will be considered the agressor.

I for one am very perplexed on this matter, and I will be researching your site and style for more facts.

Be safe and be well.

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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
 
Re: Hair styles. Folks, Adrian Paul of Highlander: The Series fame even got attention with his hair. In fact, folks wanted to get the custom hair clips he used on the show.
 
Richard,

Guro Plinck did not poke a hole in your lowline on that video, did he?
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Just kidding.

What you are talking about, pushing in during a trap is very relevant in this conversation because prisoners pump serious iron whilst vacationing in the can, and they can push through about anything they want to. You are using finesse and skill, they would be using brute force, but the result of that same trap you described would be the same. A thrusted/cut Carotid or Jugular. As we say around here, "Bad Thing."

A lot of people that speak of disarming a knife and stripping it, well, a lot of that came from cutting them to dysfunction and then stripping it out, not empty handed stripping and popping it out using the leverage provided by the flat of the blade, etc.

This goes back to what Marc said about culture and modern day America.

A lot of people talk about disarming knives, stripping them, etc., very interesting.

Take a Biker or a Convict that has been lifting weights for a long time. I have to sit here and wonder how some folks come to the conclusion that you are going to defeat his grip even using Bio-Mechanical Leverage in some instances. Some of these guys have just sat in the joint for 6 months to 12 years, or they are actively participating in weight lifting as a free hellraiser...they have had their hands around a piece of steel that has a couple hundred pounds to a few hundred pounds of weight on it. They are used to holding that bar. Not only are they huge and have immense strength, they have immense grip strength without even addressing that in their training, it is a by-product of lifting weights in general.

Now, some of these people are teaching women and smaller guys to try and defeat that. Cultural reality meets fantasy head-on.

This also goes back to the drills, muscle memory, what if the guy is just very strong and blows your centerline. Bad Thing.

I don't know all the anwers, but I know this stuff has to be modified.

The points made about being able to get the knife out are also true.

You have to be serious if you are going to carry a knife for self-defense, the sheaths and carry systems have become more concealable and subtle and the sheaths faster on the draw. The folders have become more accessible (pocket clip) and much faster, using various one-hand, or "no-hand" opening devices.

All of this helps, it aids people that are serious about this. You still have to practice, and you have to practice dry like with a handgun until you can do it safely, then you have to draw under stress...you have to learn to evade away from the attacking line before or during the draw. This takes a lot of training, a lot of training is an understatement.

Bob Kasper has some damned good ideas about the reality of using a knife for self-defense...and he most certainly has the right idea about being able to defend yourself before or during the draw. Because as you guys state clearly and accurately, a lot of times, the sh*t has already hit the fan.

Oh yeah, Richard, most definitely, if at all possible, the attacker should feel the steel before they see it. Words to live by. Especially when it comes to Multiple Attackers, don't show them the Trump Card.
 
Richard said:
Dewd! I'm trying to improve our image a little here. Ya know, hinting at a deep connection to archetypal warrior spirit and all that. Would you want your reading public to think we were a couple of cads and lacking in sophistication all through our misspent youth?

HAH! If you are going to get all Jungian with me let me point out that the four male archetypes are king, warrior, magician and LOVER.

As for the unsophisticated cad comment, we weren't?
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Donna,

Well my Little Dove, some industrious and monetary-minded individuals are actively trying to turn Filipino Combat Arts into TKD. In some circles, FMA are sold hand in hand with blatantly lesser, "sporting-type" endeavors that are not martial arts. This brings in the kiddies and the money, after all, you don't want little Johnny and Becky actually learning how to beat people with sticks, or to actually have the ability to fight off someone much bigger then they are in the kitchen of their own home with a Butcher's Knife. Envision your own scenario.

It is so much prettier, flashier and impressive to be able to do a jump, spinning back kick thingy then to use Sipa Sipa to break their lowline down. And guess what? You get a nifty colored belt and you get trophies from competition!

Nevermind the fact you get aced on the street by a crackhead with a boxcutter.

It is simply a matter of reality and practical necessity.

If your interests are ego, or something to pass the time...anything will suffice.

But someone in the FMA's that would be trying to silence someone else in the FMA's from talking about weapons for fear of somehow "offending" a newcomer to the arts is a sure sign that the ugly beast Commercialism is creeping in.

Anything that has the appearance of violence is going to be considered politically incorrect or psychopathic in nature and therefore will be shunned. It is so much easier to stick your head in the sand and teach people how to kick knives out of a dirtbag's hands.

 
Chariot, if your still reading this, some FMA folks prefer light weight short knives for manueverability and heavy bolos (long chopping knives)for chopping ability. A lot of folks don't care but a lot of times these aren't the folks who carry knives.

Donna, oh yeah the hair thing was a big issue. Didn't you know Mr. Macyoung was Adrian Paul's stunt double?
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I know about the censoring issue on the Net. That was one reason I left one forum.

Commercialism, I'm seeing it where I live (West Coast) already. Kung fu folks promote "open weapons sparring" tournaments ala FMA point contact only with nice silk uniforms and wide stances. Karate/TKD folks suddenly teach FMA stickfighting as a supplement, so kids doing sinawalli is more prevalent. Perhaps this is the price to pay for promoting/keeping an MA alive.

Knife work is a bit different. An acquaintance who got into JKD/WC/Shooto told me he had barely a few stick lessons with no knife at all and he has Asst. Instructor ranking. The foam weapon tourneys here have only 2 categories, sword and staff so it's still generic.
 
Mr. MacYoung,

Thanks for the contributions! There are a couple of areas I am a little cloudy on, but it is probably just because I am in need of a little more detail.

One is empty hand defense against a knife attack. I practice in FMA, Inayan System of Eskrima, and we practice both empty-hand against knife and knife against knife. I understand that it is very likely that if I am ever attacked by a knife it will be a surprise, and I will certainly be defending empty handed until and unless I get a chance to securely draw a knife. This makes empty-hand more important in my view, but once you are able to draw a knife, it now becomes a knife to knife fight, and we train for that too.

But what will bring a empty-hand versus knife attack to a close unless you manage a destruction or disarm, or you die? That is probably a question more for the general readership who are saying that it is not too practical to train on destructions and disarms. I understand that they are difficult to accomplish.

Secondly, the notion that defense with a knife will land you in prison. Again, I understand that if you have an avenue of escape, and kill the attacker instead, that is a legally indefensible act, but while you are being attacked, or standing between an attacker and a family member who cannot flee, you are blocking and cutting. What choice do you have? It seems that if any cut at all to an attacker is indefensible legally, we are better off without any knife at all. One must live to have a day in court. Once you've been attacked with deadly force, you must stop the attack or die.

I understand that we must be able to defend ourselves from a knife attack with empty hands, but do you seem espouse no use of deadly force in self defense.

Respectfully,

 
Originally posted by Smoke:

Donna, oh yeah the hair thing was a big issue. Didn't you know Mr. Macyoung was Adrian Paul's stunt double?
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That, unfortunately, is actually apocryphal, but Marc did in fact build the sets for one of the lamer Jean Claude Van Damme flicks. (And intimidated the poor actor quite badly around the subject of phone use) It is also rumored that various unsavory parts of his life appeared in a certain movie about the frolicsome exploits of a rather short bouncer. (which he categorically, even stridently denies, so much so that it does make one wonder)
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Richard


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Power is always less effective than its possessors estimate it to be
 
Originally posted by Steve Harvey:
I understand that it is very likely that if I am ever attacked by a knife it will be a surprise, and I will certainly be defending empty handed until and unless I get a chance to securely draw a knife. This makes empty-hand more important in my view, but once you are able to draw a knife, it now becomes a knife to knife fight, and we train for that too.

Good points and well thought out. However there is one midigating factor. Knife fighting is like Russian Roulette, the longer you hang around and play the worse your odds. And unfortunately, against an experienced knifer, it's like playing RR with an automatic. It's going to get messy real quick.

One of the problems that I have with current training philosophies about knife work is that they are training to "Fight." Now I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but if a guy is attacking you with a knife, he doesn't want to fight you, he wants to kill you and with as little danger, grief and work to himself as possible. Notice a significant difference in mindsets. He's attacking you so he doesn't have to fight and if he is successful, you will never get a chance.

As Richard mentioned we have a slightly different mindset about "defanging" the snake. Like the mongoose I am not looking to get a cobra fang toothpick, I'm looking to punch the cobra's ticket before it does the same to me. This is not fighting (which is to establish dominance and/or punishment), this is combat. I don't care if he learns his lesson about how silly it was to attack me, my goal is to prevent him from attacking again.

A knife is a tool. It is not the ultimate answer. If I have to do a job without a particular tool, it's going to complicate things yes, but I am still going to get the job done because I have other tools availible. And I'm going to get the job done while I am there the first time, 'cause I ain't going to give him a second chance.

My old Sifu Hawkins Cheung once told me "don step back once ewe der. Ewe no want to run drew his hittin' range agan" This was more succenctly stated by Patton as "I don't like paying for the same realestate twice" So now let me ask you, do I dodge a knife attack, jump away only to risk running through his kill zone again to get him with my knife? And while we're on the subject, won't me turning around to fight him instead of running fiercely be looked upon by the courts as being an active participant of the game? If you escaped, why didn't you try to run instead of turning around to fight the guy once you had your knife out? Kinda shoots the SD plea in the foot, neh?

So yes, it might be nice to use a specific tool, but I am not going to sacrifice my life or endanger myself by going out of my way to deploy that tool. Especially if I can put it to bed by avoiding his first strike by counterstriking as I run.

If I am overly focused on deploying my knife, I may never get a chance to do so.
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Mr. MacYoung,

Thank you very much for the reply. Please tell me if I understand the principle that you are espousing. I believe you are saying, close and deal decisively with the attacker, empty handed, and don't use the knife for this type of attack at all. I am not trying to pin you down, I know every situation is going to be different and fluid. Multiple knife-wielding attackers for instance might be a situation where knife defense would be wise and legally warranted. But otherwise, defend yourself empty-handed against a single knife attacker?

Or are you saying that once inside the attacker's range, finish him, with a knife or without, and rely on the fact that the attacker precipitated the decisive encounter to substantiate justifiable self-defense?

I have collected that quote from Sifu Cheung. A foundation principle, obviously, but one that was not eminent in my mind until now.

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 07-27-2000).]
 
Originally posted by Steve Harvey:
Thank you very much for the reply. Please tell me if I understand the principle that you are espousing. I believe you are saying, close and deal decisively with the attacker, empty handed, and don't use the knife for this type of attack at all.

Not exactly, what I am saying is that not everyone you will be facing with a blade is going to be doing the FMA thing and hanging back trying to slash your arms to ribbons. In fact, most knife attacks are going to be in your face, closing to kill you.

This significantly effects what you can do. If the guy is hanging back doing the knife waving thing to slash your arms, then you might have time to jump back and draw your blade. You are not closing bare handed against a knifer.

If on the other hand the guy is trying to punch your ticket, he is closing with you. He is not going to be hanging back, which means the problem is immediate and in your face. Therefore it is not safe to draw your knife while your attacker is a) right there and b) actively slashing at you. By dropping your hand to draw your knife you are losing half of your tools and chances to protect yourself.

If on the other hand you, as you put it "deal decisively" with your attacker as you are buying distance from the knife, then you significantly reduce the chances of getting cut. The rub is however, you must be decisive. There is no hit him six times before he falls. You must drop him on your first move - because that is all you will have time to do.
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Marc: It's great to have you and Richard on the Forum.

BTW, I've met Hawkins Cheung. It was fun to see someone who looked like a Hollywood film version of a Chinese accountant, thick glasses and all-- who must have weighed 98lbs soaking wet--throw a punch that staggered a heavyweight. A Great Wing Chun master...
 

Originally posted by J_Ringo
BTW, I've met Hawkins Cheung. B

Does anyone on the forum know how he is doing? I haven't seen him for years and being in CO makes it hard to track people down in LA.I haven't found a Web presence
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Marc: He's alive and well and still teaching WC and Tai Chi at 8687 Venice blvd. in W. L.A. You can reach him at(310)838-5133.
 
Animal,
I guess what you're telling us, is that once the street attack has started, we're already "Behind the curve".
BG, who mugs, steals, and hurts others for a living probibly picks "Clients" carefuly and sets up a good tactical ambush. By the time we realise we've been chosen, it's often too late...the deck has been stacked and the cards are being dealt.
Is this my alleged scenerio common or is it more random? (And I paranoid)
 
Originally posted by Chariot:
so i take it you think "the intimidation" factor is useless? what do you mean you dont threaten with a handgun? police do this all the time.

Can't speak for civilian police, but I was an MP for a short time (Until I gave the Provost Martial a parking ticket--long story) We were trained to never pull our weapons unless we intended to use them

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When all's said and done, a lot more is said than done.
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